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Triumph TR6 - Connectors

looking for a compression fitting for a nylon 5/16" hose for my new fuel line. I think it needs to be a sleeved fitting
Would really like the other side to be NPT

Steve??

Don Kelly

You're not giving us much to work with here. What size NPT, is it a male threads on the NPT side based on image, is this 5/16" OD or ID, if ID, what is the wall?

I dare say that somewhere in the Seattle area you have a fluid fitting and hose supply house that can probably fix you up with all you need if you take the appropriate bits of fuel system bits in there so they can work up a kit.
SteveP1

1/8th,1/4 works.
It is thin line 5/16 nylon hose. I been all over looking for air brake connectors. They have compression,but doesn't have a sleeve for the hose like the above pic.

The line type is here.
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/DOR6/800074.oap?ck=Search_nylon+fuel+line+repair+kits_-1_-1&keyword=nylon+fuel+line+repair+kits

Oh yea, they make nylon 5/16 air brake tubing but no one makes the connectors for it
Don Kelly

Don,
Is this the same "hard" nylon tubing that's original fuel line from the tank?
db
Doug Baker

No Doug, Modern fuel injection hose.
What the manuf. are using now
Don Kelly

QUOTE
"Don,
Is this the same "hard" nylon tubing that's original fuel line from the tank?
db"

UMMM mine is steel Doug.

Rick
Rick Crawford

Think he is confusing the evap line, maybe?
Don Kelly

Yeah, you're right Don. The evaporative lines. Mine still "seem" to be OK, but since I've replaced just about EVERY thing else, I've wondered where I'd find that nylon piping.
db
Doug Baker

Doug, I got my evap stuff from a local shop.
Probably won't use it now as I have nothing to connect to it.

Dorman sells the Fuel line I am using and I know they have it in 1/4". You have to dig for it though.
Don Kelly

Something along these lines perhaps?

http://www.swagelok.com/search/find_products_home.aspx?part=B-8M0-1-2&item=20b6dcb5-5a04-42f1-9df7-a5d3fd3672c3

I can't help but feel that you have a Swagelok distributor/dealer somewhere in the Seattle area. Words of warning, they don't give this things away, but Swagelok does make high quality stuff. I've used bucket fulls of their stuff over the last thirty years.
SteveP1

Thanks Steve- Not sure if they are any different than the ones I have.
They are not "To" far away. will make a trip to them
Don Kelly

Don,

You're not using the tools that were placed at your disposal, that link was just tossed out there as an example and to take you to the nitty gritty stuff that you need. As for being different than what you currently have, I can't say but do know that if what you have is a single ferrule fitting, these are different.

Download the catalog and go through the various configurations of the fittings. At the front of the catalog the double ferrule system is explained. You will find the straight fittings starting on page 13 in a variety of threaded joint types including ones that I would go for over the NPT style (can't help it, I just don't like tapered pipe threads).

Next, to paraphrase Bob Dylan, set yourself out in the sun* and turn your attention to page 61. There you will find sleeves for use with these fittings and soft tubing.

Now that you've gone through that information, you understand why I previously asked about OD vs ID of the tubing along with thread type and configuration. So get your precision measuring devices in hand, figure out what you have, then translate that into getting what you need. Make sure that you pick up some extra front and back ferrules plus maybe some nuts for that just in case "oops" scenario.

*Sun is a relative term in your neck of the woods at this time of year based on my experience.
SteveP1

What's a sun?
Don Kelly

Steven, thanks for the Swagelok point.
They are great. In fact turned out my fuel line that is sold as 5/16 is actually 8 mm.
Couldn't get the ferule to fit for the 5/16 but the 8mm was perfect.
Thinking of SS instead of brass.
After I figure out all my angles of the connectors and fitting ends I will make my purchase.
She(sales lady) also gave me her little cheater book that has the style of connectors I would be interested in.So now I'll have all the part #'s in hand
Thank you again
Don Kelly

Don,

I had wondered that tube size as I generally think of 5/16" as a bit of a bastard size for tubing (see previous rants on the matter), the 8 mm makes more sense even though it is very close to 5/16".

As for going with SS/CRES over the brass, be sure to consider galvanic reaction potential between the fittings and the body to which they will be installed. You can also do a "wet install" using primer or something like a polysulfide sealant to help out in that respect as well. Do not use a standard "silicone seal" as their out gassing products from the cure cycle are corrosive.
SteveP1

Fitting are to fuel Reg, fuel pump, Shut off which is brass,dang, should have ordered that in brass,and the tank return line.
That I think is the weak link in the corrosive thing if I think about it.
Ordered 7 fittings today. Spent some coin but think it will be nice.
They even special built the thread connection for the fuel pump which is 10mmX1.0 and is not in the catalog.
What do you recommend as a sealant?
Don Kelly

Unfortunately my favorite isn't available to us mere mortals as it has has been discontinued under the MIL-S family and not picked up by either the SAE/AMS or NASM/AIAA bodies although there is still some produced under corporate specs for various outfits.

So going to the next choice down the list, the MIL-S-8802/AMS-S-8802 stuff is pretty decent. Here is link to Aircraft Spruce's listing for the 8802 compliant stuff they sell:

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/ac236half.php

and

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/ac2362.php

Doing the throw back to the MIL-S callout, these would be MIL-S-8802A-1/2 and MIL-S-8802A-2. The "A" designates that it is a low viscosity brushable version while the -1/2 and -2 indicate the working life/application time from the start of mixing the two components. I would not fiddle with the -1/2, you just don't have enough working life. There is higher viscosity "B" version that is also considered brushable, but it would be harder to work with if your intent is a wet install as opposed to say making a faying surface or fillet seal. There is even a "C" version, don't go there, you would need a trowel.

These would be tack free at 40 hours, with full cure at 72 hours nominally for both the "A" and the "B" -2 sealants. (yea, I know this is different from what they say on the website, I'm going by the spec information) The actual times will vary as a function of humidity and temperature. You can also do an accelerated cure using heat, but that has to be well controlled and can get tricky. Nominal component shelf life is nine months and if are very careful with your measurements, you can mix up small batches to be used over multiple work sessions. Make sure the mix is a good uniform gray and enjoy that stinky sulfide smell. That will go away as it cures. Wear clothes you don't mind losing as getting it off of clothes is almost impossible.

Odds are your local aviation supply house would have this as well, Spruce isn't the only game in town/on the web.

Some of the marine supplies also sell polysulfide sealants, but I have no experience with them so can't speak to those directly.
SteveP1

Steve- Received the Metric fittings for the fuel pump.
Swagelok made the threaded end with an 1/8" size hole.
That's not big enough to supply the pump, correct ?
Don Kelly

Let's start with the part numbers involved and take it from there.
SteveP1

8MO-1-M10 X 1.0
Don Kelly

I guess the first question that I have is how was the 10mm x 1.0 decided on, was it driven by the threaded connections on the pump, regulator and such? This was initially done talking in terms of NPT and was thrown a bit when it wound up going metric instead of NPT or my preference, UNF.

Nominally I'd say that ~1/8" is too small, but if you're dealing with a high pressure/low volume requirement, it might be OK. Before going any further though, I'd really like to know what drove the thread size selection since that has a direct impact on the porting bore and ponder this a bit more.
SteveP1

The pump is metric 10mmm X 1.0
Don Kelly

Connector opening




Don Kelly

Fuel Pump with connector



Don Kelly

Now that I've pondered this for a while, here is my basic take on things to this point.

The fuel line that you indicate above is an 8mm with a 1mm wall for a 6mm tube bore, which ties in with the Swagelok -8M5-6M soft tube inserts shown on page 61 of their MS-01-140 catalog. The bore of that insert is 4.4mm (~.173"). I am operating on the assumption that you are using these soft tube inserts with the fitting.

The fitting you have is a semi-custon, but based on your description and metric "RS" series fittings from page 20 of that same catalog, the 10mm x 1.0 threaded end matches the 3.2mm (~.126") bore of the fitting you mentioned above.

This brings me to two questions. The first is what does supplier of you injection kit say is the required bore of the fittings? If they say you can live with that port size at the fittings, then you are good to go. If the port needs to be a bit bigger, it's on to the next paragraph.

The second question is what is the possibility of opening up the bore on the fittings? I'm thinking in terms of matching the port bore of the fitting body to the 4.4mm bore of the sleeve or the 4.8mm (~.189") bore that would be found on the 12mm x 1.0 threaded fittings. The "cartoon" in the catalog shows an undercut at the base of threads, but it is not that evident in the photos. This is going to be the driver on whether or not the fitting port can be opened up and by how much. I've done that before on AN fittings, but never on a Swagelok product as for the most part I use the keyed quick disconnect types and you just dont mess about with them. However, these look to be a straight through port, so you dont have to worry about quick disconnect mechanism.
SteveP1

Steve- I'm in Boston away from my stuff so can't check out the catalog.
The tubing is ridged tubing and no insert.
Opening the bore is kind of what I was thinking.
I asked the sales person I am dealing with and she gave me a number for a better contact person to answer that question
Don Kelly

Don,

I take from your recently increased posting that you are back from Boston. Have you had a chance to download the Swagelok MS-01-140 catalog and looked at pages 20 and 61 mentioned above?
SteveP1

Dang- Will do today

They gave me a nice little pocket guide for tube fittings.
Don't match up to your #'s.
Will check the big catalog
Don Kelly

Steve- now that I look at the cat. and reread your post I understand what you were driving at.
I do need to find out from them if i can open it up and by how much.

Regards to the supplier of the injection, Rick Patton want everyone to use 3/8'e line and all the experts I have asked say 5/16's is adequate for more hp than I could ever get from that car. So, His response probably would not help.

Now the provider of the ITB's might have an idea or the actual tuner of the system in Indiana might
Don Kelly

Post back with updates.
SteveP1

Don, any updates?
SteveP1

This thread was discussed between 10/01/2012 and 07/04/2012

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