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Triumph TR6 - Engine oil

My TR6 is on the road after sitting for 20 years.

I changed all fluids initially and will change again in the next week or so. It does blow a small amount of smoke, however, the compression is good.

In searching the archives for correct oil, Castrol 20W50 seems popular.

I am curious why such a heavy oil? Will my car blow less smoke and does it contain the zinc required for older motors?

Thanks

JOHN BRUNATTI

If it hasn't been run in awhile maybe start it up with an oil a little more viscous. Then switch to the 20-50. Castrol with the ZDDP is good. I use Penn.
DON KELLY

Hi John. I use Quaker State 20w50 and add 1 bottle of ZDDP Plus which I buy from Drake's British in Kelowna, B.C. I believe a heavy oil is used because of the low tolerances of this vintage of engine. I'm sure others responding to this will correct me and or shed more light.
Cheers
Pete
Pete Russell

I too use Castrol 20-50 John due to the good input of others on this BBS. I'll add though that based upon his 30+ years in the LBC business a fellow who owns what I believe to be the largest dedicated LBC shop in the Vancouver area urged that I use 4 quarts of oil with 1 quart of Lucas Oil Additive so I do. It's thick and yet my oil pressure is normal. I'm off the road in October like most Canucks so the viscosity seems tolerable.

You will also hear from Rick C that adding 2 oz of AC Delco EOS (Engine oil supplement) is a good thing as well. I think it too helps with the loss of zinc in modern oils. It is available at GM dealership parts counters. It costs about $7 including tax for 500mls.

Ken
Ken Shaddock

John,

It was the grade recommeded by Triumph with a S.A.E rating of SE, SF.

You could use modern Cartral GTX rated SM( not suitable for our TR6) + ZDDP additive.
Or try to find an oil with proper specs. I found motorcycle oil at W-M 20W50 SE, SF, which is adequate for TR6.

Cheers,

Jean
J. G. Catford

To All
NO OIL TODAY HAS ZDDP IN IT THAT IS ANT WAY NEAR WHAT IT WAS (THE LEVEL OF ZDDP) BACK IN THE 70S....................PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THIS INCLUDES ANY DIESEL OIL......................PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OK, I think I said that loud enough.
I have done considerable research on this subject with contacting oil companies and in specific CASTROL who have said to me in e-mail reply that there level of ZDDP went from .125% to .0125%. I will supply this proof to any one who asks.

Now with this said.... THE most critical time for ZDDP is during engine break in. BUT the point that has to be considered is that we have flat tappets and non roller rockers. This combination SHOULD still have ZDDP to help in keeping metal to metal wear to a minimum. Simply put, if we had roller rockers then no need for ZDDP.

In a nut shell the ONLY reason why ZDDP was removed from oil is because it destroys catalytic converters...THAT IS IT !!!!! and we all know why modern cars have them.
I think I am going to stop telling you guys the ONLY place to but ZDDP is from your local GM dealership....what a sec...I did not say that.

Here endeth the 25 sermon.
Rick Crawford

PTL Rick. We may make fun at times but it's sure good having you look out for us rookies.

K
Ken Shaddock

I had been using Castrol 20W50 for years, but have recently switched to Valvoline VR1 20W50. They seem to have the most ZDDP in commonly available oils without going the additive route.

Check the Valvoline website: http://www.valvoline.com/faqs/motor-oil/racing-oil/
M Burtt

I believe the Penn oil I use has more.
DON KELLY

Rick,

I disagree slightly with your advaice as motorcycle oil still have ZDDP until 2010 or 2012. An oil rated SE or SF has ZDDP in it.

JG
J. G. Catford

I think Rick is getting at the fact of REDUCED ZDDP in the oils mentioned.
DON KELLY

Let me put it this way to you.


.125% or .012%
Are these 2 numbers anywhere near each other???????

You see they can still say there is ZDDP in the oil.
(It was not the oil manufacturers who reduced/removed ZDDP...it was the Government).


Sorry I have done ZERO research on 2 wheeler oil. Did not think it is pertinent to us here. Besides, I would not consider motorcycle oil as an alternative for my TR6.

M Burtt, I am curious, how much does a quart, sorry ,liter of VR1 cost and what "specialty" stores sell it?
Also it it not advisable to change your oil after every race since this oil is only formulated for use in a short period of time?
Again another oil I would not consider for my TR6.

Sorry, I guess I should have been more specific in that I am only talking about oils that we would use in our cars.,..not race cars and not motorcycles. After all, this is "The Triumph Enthusiasts' BBS "

Not wishing to be controversial.
Rick
Rick Crawford

Rick,

Very simple, we are facing a common problem and to me there is no reliable answers, except, may be, to add ZDDP.



Have a look at that site:

http://www.ttalk.info/Zddp.htm

Cheers

Jean G.
J. G. Catford

Rick, believe it or not there are lots of guys running their 6's with 2 wheel oil also "god forbid" Yamalube. Gasp!
DON KELLY

oil changesolutely 100%.

I cut and paste a line from that article
QUOTE "From General Motors (Chevrolet): add EOS, their oil fortifier, to your oil, it
Rick Crawford

Rick here in USA South Castrol does sell a product WITH added ZDDP
DON KELLY

Don... where is that oil sold? Pep Boys, Advance, Napa, etc?

Ken
Ken Shaddock

All of them I bet.

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/genericarticle.do?categoryId=82915470&contentId=7032644
DON KELLY

Rick, I picked up the EOS from GM but the parts guy was not that knowledgable. Is product #992869 the same as what you identified?

Also, while in the GM parts dept., I noticed a GL4 manual transmission fluid. However, the weight of the fluid is not identified and the mechanics had no clue. If this is proper weight of GL4, It is the only place locally with the correct fluid for the tranny not synthetic.

Does anybody know if this product through GM is the correct weight?
JOHN BRUNATTI

I have no direct experience with them, but here is my understanding of the GM transmission Fluids:

GM part Number 12377916 is a semi-synthetic with friction modifiers.

GM part Number 12345349 is a semi-synthetic that without friction modifiers. It is considered interchangable with Pennzoil's "Syncromesh Fluid" and Royal Purples's "Syncromax."

Again, from what I understand, these all have a lower viscosity than Redline's MTL, which might be suitable in Canada, but would be considered too thin here in the steamy South for the Triumph. If you go to RP's website and see the fluid cross reference table, you will note that the Syncromax is cross referenced to Dexron III which is primarily an automatic transmission fluid. That should at least give you an idea as to the viscosity.

If your car is a non-OD one, you might want to consider Motorcraft's 75W-90 API GL-4 under part number XT-75W90-QGL or their full synthetic manual transmission fluid under part number XT-M5-QS. It is also a 75W90, Gl-3 and GL-4 that was developed for the cars where Ford fitted German made manual transmissions that tended to be rather notchy. Take the part numbers with you to the Ford dealer to make sure you get the right stuff and not wind up with stuff for a differential. I use the XT-M5-QS in our (dare I say it) Miata. It lists for about 18 USD/qt.

If you have an overdrive car, think in terms of a 20W50 or a straight 30wt non-detergent racing oil.
SteveP1

Don
I quote from your post..." receive modern wear protection from a high–zinc formula specially engineered for classic engines. "

How much is high. Please send Castrol an e-mail and ask them what is the %. This IS THE ONLY true answer to how high.. high is. I mean...... .023% is higher than .012%.....I am not false advertising.
Remember the old Castrol levels (along with every other oil manufacturer) was around the .125% area.

John
GM only makes one product called ACDelco EOS (Engine Oil Substitute) and yes that is the number. Please do not pass this information on to anyone else though.

GL-4 is typically a 75w-90 weight oil and is acceptable for our trannys. Be carefull with GL-5 oil as it may contain additives that will harm brass syncro rings (yellow metal).

Hi Steve P how are ya???

Steve has it correct on the Non OD tranny. Keep in mind he is talkin' NON OD. Steve knows a heck of a lot more than I do about TRs and I do not think he minds me adding, to be crystal clear, do not use Synthetic oil in an OD tranny.
Rick Crawford

Thanks Rick,

If GL4 is typically a 75w-90, then I will use this oil. The GM parts manager did not know the weight.

I knew that I could not use GL5, however, I could only find GL4 in a synthetic. The GL4 at the GM dealer is a conventional oil.

Is there a preference to conventional or synthetic?
JOHN BRUNATTI

Thanks Steve, I will call the local Ford dealer as well.
JOHN BRUNATTI

Rick thanks, As I don't use the Castrol oil I have no stake in it's ZDDP.
DON KELLY

John

Like I said, the only thing to keep in mind with the tranny is that you can not use Synthetic oil in a tranny with OD. If no OD then flip a coin as to how much you want to spend per quart. Synthetic is nice but regular dino is quite adequate for our tyrannys.
IMHO

Rick
Rick Crawford

I purchased the synthetic from Napa for $15.00 a litre. When I went back to GM I found out that the price of their GL4 was $26.00 a litre!

Thanks guys
JOHN BRUNATTI

Hi Rick,

You asked the following questions:

M Burtt, I am curious, how much does a quart, sorry ,liter of VR1 cost and what "specialty" stores sell it?
Also it it not advisable to change your oil after every race since this oil is only formulated for use in a short period of time?
Again another oil I would not consider for my TR6.

I don't remember how much I paid for the VR1 but it was certainly no more than $0.50 to $1 a litre. It wasn't enough to cause me any concern. I bought it at a regular autoparts store in Ottawa (Benson's Autoparts). I've seen it at other places too and it wasn't hard to find.

I'm not sure why you think this oil is formulated to only last a short period of time? Valvoline advertises this oil as being suitable for street cars and vans. They also sell some "real" racing oils not recommended for street use, so I'm not sure this oil is supposed to be changed after every "race". Plus I only do about 1500 miles a year anyway and I change the oil every year.

Cheers,
Martin
M Burtt

Not ZDDP related but check this out.
http://www.animegame.com/cars/Oil%20Tests.pdf
DON KELLY

This thread was discussed between 18/06/2009 and 09/07/2009

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