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Triumph TR6 - Fuel Injection

Will like to know if there is a conversion kit to replace my SU to a PI system, thay is: replace my carburators with a fuel injection unit...Has any one done this? Any ideas will be considered...
Angel L. Traverso

Angel,
Triumph supplied a lot of TR6s, as well as others of their 6 cylinder range, with Pi kit. This Lucas mechanical system was not well received at the time, bcause it was the first production car with Pi, and garages and mechanics had no training or expertience with the system. It can be well tuned, if you take your time. Lots of advice from the TR Register here in the UK, or you may find help in the US.

The kit must come from a Pi car - no one makes them any more. You need the throttle bodies, the meter unit and ignition distributor, and the fuel pump and filter unit. These will bolt on, but some work is needed to modify your fuel tank for two fuel returns for execess fuel. Old metering units should be restored with new seals to withstand leadless petrol.

Modern fuel injection systems are entirely electronic, and again, here in the UK, there are several aftermarket systems for sale that can be put onto any engine. As well as thottle bodies, these kits will include an electronics package, and various sensors. The best are programmable by laptop, while you run the engine - makes tuning very easy!

I hope that helps!
John
JohnD

Hi Angel

Your general engine condition will also be important. The PI cars had a much higher compression ratio to go along with the original fuel injection. I am in Canada. 10.5 I believe compression would mean fueling at the airport using airport transfers tunbridge wells. Can be done I'm sure but. Have you considered a good old American V8 transplant if you just want performance. Lot cheaper than any of above.

Hey JohnD so you are where the real Triumphs are. Not our watered down versions. Thanks for the input on the diff. on other thread.

Let us know
Bill
B Brayford

Hey Angel

why not just add a triple weber conversion with headers and free flow exhaust, and while you are at it and want even more power, shave down the head to increase compression to around 9.5:1 and put in a hotter cam. With those conversions you will be putting out at least 150/150 but it will be more reliable and less troublesome than the PI conversion. The advantage of this is that you are keeping the car more or less stock as this was a normal practice in its day as opposed to dropping (gasp) a Detroit iron into the bay (Of course unless you name is Carrol Shelby and you are working with AC or Rootes)
Steven

oh Boy...I like this site more and more every day...read the messages every day. A V8 is out of question... I could out run a V8 on a traffic light. Want to keep my "British Toy" as original as posible. There are about 40 of those in Puerto Rico where 90% of the time the top is down and the sunny breeze of the Caribbean on your face...any way, thanks to Steven,Brayford and John for their imputs.
Angel L. Traverso

Hello Angel,

There is a custom fuel injection system designed for the TR6 being sold in the USA for a mere $2,200 (ouch).

You can read about it at the following website address:

http://www.totaladvance.com/tr6.htm

I think in this case it's a classic example of marketing 101 where the price / demand curve is optimum at a lower price. If the guy sold this thing for about $1,000 I bet he'd sell a bunch. I'd buy for a G.

Good luck with your TR...

JP
John Parfitt

The $2200 isn't all that bad if you have priced out systems before, even a set a triple DCOEs will run $1500 plus (maybe at a sale type price, typically more in the $1700-1800 range). Several years ago I had priced out a system using converted Weber DCOEs as throttle bodies, etc. By the time you got the throttle bodies, filters, manifold, linkage, injectors, pump, accumulator, control unit and the rest of the necessary bits, you were bumping about $4500 in 1990. needless to say, I dispensed with that idea and went the DCOE route ("only" about $1200 at the time). The issue with running the Triumph/Lucas mechanical PI is to make sure that the inlet manifold will work with your cylinder head. The early carb heads used a different inlet port spacing than the PI and later carb heads. In a system such as that from Total, the same rules would apply. I also know that TWM has a racing PI set up for the TR6 for a little more than Total's. It is only manifolded for the PI/later carb port spacing. If you plan on going the PI route and have an early cylinder head, odds are you will need to get a later head and mill it down to obtain the desired compression ratio.
SteveP

Hey Angel

Thanks for making us in Canada feel better as we dig in for our 90% freeze are A**** off. 10-20 below zero. TR up on blocks lying on cold cement getting her ready for spring. Wind and snow blowing through garage door you can't quite get sealed right. Grab that frost covered wrench and watch your hand cramp.

Now as a fine southern fella and obviously an avid TR guy. I would think an open invitation for those of us living in somewhat harsher climates might be in order. We would of course be more than happy to sit around and offer TR advice over a cold rum drink. The Caribbean breeze in my face riding around in your TR. would make my day during most Canadian months.

Oh Well back to sleep and dreaming
Bill

B Brayford

JohnP(arfitt) et al,
The Total Performance kit looks most interesting, especially the single throttle. But the best power they claim for the system is 120bhp @ 5K! For $2.2K (1500), I would expect a little more!

Is this kit directed at owners in states with stringent emissions laws?
JOhn
JohnD

Only 120 hp...

I view that system as capable of producing much more horespower since they tested with stock compression and stock cam. It appears the engine management computer is programmable and allows changes to the fuel mapping, however, in order to do a proper job reprogramming a fuel management computer one would need some equipment such as a dyno with a fuel mixture feedback device. If Total Advance was a bigger company, they would prolly offer a fuel map for XYZ cam etc. If you know what you are doing with that computer, you should be able to get 150hp with the right airflow through that engine.

JP
John Parfitt

Maybe I am missing something but even if it could produce 150hp it still seems quite dismal considering the engine is 2.5l, a 6 cyl, with dual exahaust and NO pollution control equipment. In reading the power outputs of Detroit engines in the 60's and early 70's I can help but think why are our motors so anemic? did something get lost in the translation?

The Datsun 240z (which began the death of the TR6) has the same configuration as our cars ('cept for the OHC) and stock it was good for 151hp. If I go back in time the XK150 produced 265 hp from 3.8l, guess I could assume that had they made the 2.5 TR motor, we would be gitting 174 hp. was discontinued 1 year before ours hit the roads. I don't think that OHC or DOHC can add that much power and come to think of it, even today the C5 Corvette or Viper are still a OHV design producing tons of power. Even the Healey 3000 produced 150hp from an engine 500cc larger, so keeping that theory we should have been at least good for 125hp and that car

So the question is: why are our lumps of an in-line 6, dual carbs and exhaust with no pollution control equipment producing less power than a Toyota Echo that has 1L less displacement? I am tired of being laughed at when people ask how much power does that engine have, there is no dignity of saying 101!!!!
Steven

(corrected version)

Maybe I am missing something but even if it could produce 150hp it still seems quite dismal considering the engine is 2.5l, a 6 cyl, with dual exahaust and NO pollution control equipment. In reading the power outputs of Detroit engines in the 60's and early 70's I can help but think why are our motors so anemic? did something get lost in the translation?

The Datsun 240z (which began the death of the TR6) has the same configuration as our cars ('cept for the OHC) and stock it was good for 151hp. If I go back in time the XK150 produced 265 hp from 3.8l, guess I could assume that had they made the 2.5 TR motor, we would be gitting 174 hp. . I don't think that OHC or DOHC can add that much power and come to think of it, even today the C5 Corvette or Viper are still a OHV design producing tons of power. Even the Healey 3000 produced 150hp from an engine 500cc larger, so keeping that theory we should have been at least good for 125hp and that car was discontinued 1 year before ours hit the roads.

So the question is: why are our lumps of an in-line 6, dual carbs and exhaust with no pollution control equipment producing less power than a Toyota Echo that has 1L less displacement? I am tired of being laughed at when people ask how much power does that engine have, there is no dignity of saying 101!!!!
Steven

Steven - These little new 4-cylinder engines breath through 16 valves instead of 8 like in my 4-cyl TR3A. Also the British system of taxing their cars back in the 30's was based on HP. Not real HP, but "Taxable HP". One way around all this to keep the licence tax low so they could sell more cars was to design and build engines with humungeous long strokes. The bore is small but the stroke is long. That kept the tax down.

But the power suffered. When you think that a 10-cyl engine in an F1 racer turns at 17,000 rpm, I'm sure that the stroke is at a minimum.

That is the reason our engines are so under-powered. But can they ever go. I love the sound they make ! I also love it when I drag through the gears up to 5,000 rpm at a light next to a newer car ie Mustang or hot Acura, and then tell them at the next red light they just out-ran a 44 year old car. It rots their socks !

Don Elliott, Mech. Eng. 1958 TR3A
Don Elliott

Only 150 hp...

Steven, I understand what you are saying. When you condsider the Datsun straight six, just look at that cylinder head. It really flows a lot more air than the british head and look at the Japanese combusion chamber. Those are two huge factors right there. The TR6 has a disgusting combustion chamber - the British and Japanese heads are worlds appart and that's what makes horsepower is the head. Japanese manufacturing was so far ahead of the Brits - the engines were balanced and machining tolerances were way more precise. That's why the 240Z blew the doors off everything around that displacement. BUT, the fun of owning a TR is getting a bit more power and handling. I smoked a Honda Civic with a coffee can exhaust a couple summer ago - he rolled his window down and asked: "Could we race to the speed limit". I said sure, reved it up to 5000, let the clutch out just enough to take up all the slack and then dumped it, chirped the tires and never say the guy again. I spent a tonne of time porting my head and I have some big HD8 carbs. Everythings balanced and it goes pretty good. But a TR6 aint no muscle car. You want 200hp in your six, get your wallet and go here:

http://www.prirace.com/special_engine.htm

Have fun,

JP
John Parfitt

This thread was discussed between 12/10/2002 and 18/10/2002

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