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Triumph TR6 - Need Exhaust Advise
|Need some advice on dealing with exhaust parts. Am replacing the exhaust system on my 71 TR6, and was taking out the few remnants left of the old system today while waiting for the new one to arrive. In disconnecting the three bolts that connect the front pipe to the manifold, guess what.....Sheared them off. Can't say I was surprised since they weren't in good shape anyway and I'm don't have the lightest touch either. Question is, how badly have I screwed myself? These look like studs that can be extracted from the manifold, or at least I'm hoping that's true (is it?). Does anyone have any good ideas for getting them out? Have soaked them with PB Blaster all afternoon to no avail.|
Any advice appreciated.
|A common problem on cars. How badly have you hosed yourself, not that bad. It's not a pretty answer, but it does work assuming that there is some of the stud sticking out of the flange. Remove both the intake and exhaust manifolds. Chuck the exhaust manifold into a vise and heat with a torch in the flange area around the stud to nice dull glow. Clamp a set of vise grips onto the stud and try to turn it on out. You may have to apply more than one heat cycle. Afterwards, clean everything up and use the proper studs and nuts from either TRF or Moss. Don't trust any of the cheese stuff that might find in the local hardware store. Same for any that gave you problems on the cylinder head. Install all the metal hardware with anti-seize paste and use a new gasket at the head for the manifolds.|
If there isn't any of the stud protruding from the manifold, apply a heat cycle or two to break up some of the corrosion, then drill and use screw extractors. Be careful, don't break one of the screw extractors. Just a few days ago we were swapping horror stories about trying to drill out a screw extractors.
|Make sure you use brass nuts to attach the front pipe to the exhaust manifold. The brass will not rust to the stud thus making it easy to remove down the road. I also used anti seize on the threads prior to attaching the nuts.|
I hope you decided to spend the extra $ and go with a stainless steel system as down the road you might have to do some rear diff. work and you want pipes that separate easily.
Also use the proper clamps ie the ones with one bolt as opposed to the American ones that are a u-bolt with 2 nuts.
|Thanks guys. I was kind of guessing the manifolds would have to come out to work on it with a torch. Just happy the manifold is not trashed.|
Will a plumber's torch from Home Depot do the job, or will it take forever to heat it enough?
Also, on the new hardware, you recommended going to TRF or Moss. I do have a stainless steel system on the way from the Moss sale (reminder- it ends on Thursday) and the sales person didn't know what 'system' included as far as nuts and bolts. For simple studs and nuts, won't auto parts stores or Midas/Mineke Mufflers have the same quality as TRF and Moss-assuming they have metric in stock? Hate to lose another week to shipping if I don't have to.
There is no way a plumbers torch will give you a glow to that amount of metal.
Muffler places are not in the business to make a muffler system last forever. Go to auto supply first.
|My guess is that the exhaust system is the pipes and muffler only. No mounting hardware, no manifold hardware, no manifold to downpipe gasket. On the hardware, for the most part the TR6 uses a thread standard known as "Unified." It was developed during WWII to be interchangable with all the fasteners that came on the US supplied equipment used by the British. It is ever so slightly different, but completely interchangeable with the SAE thread fastener standard. The main exceptions are component supplier hardware and some of the replacement hardware, and is not even common there. An couple of examples would be in the braking system. During the TR6 production run, Girling changed over to metrics for the front calipers so later TR6 cars were fitted with metric threaded front calipers and brake piping metric at the caliper end only. Again in the braking system, Girling supplies the replacement brake servos with metric threads, so you have to change all the hardware out to metric if you replace the brake servo, (six nuts and washers).|
As for the manifold hardware, my experience indicates the typical autoparts store won't have the right stuff either. Most fastener specialty supplies have minimum buys that would be well over the cost of these bits, so unless you plan on stocking up on fasteners, get the right stuff from TRF or Moss. (one of my bottom line positions, don't scrimp on fasteners, they hold all the other bits together) Not using the right stuff and not installing with anti-sieze leads to the problem that you currently have. Regarding the plumbers torch, I have used it for other tasks such as removing the thermostat housing, but when I have replaced the studs in the exhaust manifolds I have always used an ox-acetylene torch. I went that route because the manifold was out, and there was torch set up right by the work bench. My guess is that it would probably work, you will just have to work at it longer, i.e. more cycles. The whole point is to get some low cycle fatigue going that breaks up the brittle corrosion products due to differential thermal expansion. Take it through a few cycles, more pentrating oil to take advantage of the microcracking in the corrosion, try, heat and repeat as necessary (I like Aero-Kroil from Kano, kanolaboratories.com). If nothing else, remove the manifold and take it to a muffler place have them remove the studs for you using their torch.
|Thanks to advice received, this may turn out better than I would expect. Already have the manifold out (do the British have wrenches? Found two studs barely hand-tight---not the first time either.). Probably did me a favor, as it forces me to replace the entire exhaust, otherwise I would have ended up with a new exhaust system from the pipe down only. Already have a new gasket from previous owner. Not an expert, but the old one looked like exhaust may have been leaking (black marks from the port to the outside edge)|
Came to a similar conclusion on the torch and put the manifold in my truck to drop off tomorrow for a shop to do. Will also check the Moss 'system' I receive (Falcon SS) and order the remaining parts once I see what's missing. Nice weather in NC is tempting me to hurry up, but another week won't hurt.
Thanks for the help.
|Glad to see the website's back up, because I need one last bit of coaching now that everything's here. Short summary and the question:|
-Have the studs replaced in the manifold and have new gasket ready to go.
-Got the SS exhaust..arrived today. Question is, the Bentley book says 'refit the flange packing' which is British for the gasket between the manifold and the front pipe (at least TRF calls it a gasket in their bood). I have a thin metal one I got as a freebie on an ebay purchase. Its appears to be copper and about 1/8 inch thick. Is that all the gasket there is at this joint? Also, the book mentions no sealant. Just clamp it and go?
-The rest also seems straightforward, though I just checked the website Rick mentioned, and they recommended exhaust sealant at the joints.
Any opinions? Doesn't seem like a difficult operation, but if little touches like adding sealant improve the outcome, seems worth it.
Oh yea, SteveP, you were right...the VB kit had only pipes and muffler.
Yup we are all back again. Interesting WEB site Motorhead Ltd). I am talking with a 71 owner off this BBS who lives about 10 minutes away and well......he is not impressed. They sure do a big talk. Will be going there maybe next month so will let u know. Ya, can not say I have heard of pipe joint sealant..sounds logical though...what is the stuff called ...pipe joint? When I installed the muffler system I used the same copper gasket u are talking about with PLENTY of ant-seize. Looks like u are having fun Mark..
This thread was discussed between 23/02/2002 and 01/03/2002
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