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Triumph TR6 - Pain in the butt stuff
|It has been an absolutely perfect winter down here and I haven't bothered fixing stuff up for months. Its been too nice driving weather to waste the time.|
Last weekend, it started getting hot and cloudy again, so I tended to some overdue minor matters.
I got new knobs for Xmas. It was pretty easy finding the little holes for the indents on the old knobs. But they won't come off. What is the trick? I pushed them in with a finishing nail, but the knobs won't budge.
Also, my driver's seat back has been off for months. I had to made a new back out of press board, drill the holes, etc., and put the vinyl back on. But the little clips don't want to stay in the holes. What is the trick here?
All you guys up north can start telling me how wonderful your weather is now as we are hitting the high 80's in temp and 90+ in humidity already!
I had the same problem with my knobs. 30+ years and they're set in their ways. I know I probably didn't take the proper route to removing them after pushing the pin didn't get all of 'em off (two fought on). Since I wasn't going to reuse the old ones, I pulled out the trusty ol' Dremel and cut 'em off the posts.
Cheap & dirty, but effective.
I haven't gotten into the seat recovering yet, but I'm dreading what I'll find...
Don in Jersey
I just removed one from a Spitfire wiper switch from 1967. Trust me, it had never been off.
Get thee to the Auto Parts store and buy a spray can of "Thrust" penetrant. Any Parts Plus afilliate will have it I'm sure.
Spray some into the little hole and let it sit for 5 min. DONT GET IT IN YOUR EYES, USE THE LITTLE TUBE that comes with it.
Press on the little button in the hole several times until you FEEL IT MOVE IN!!!
Then pry the knob off using needle nose pliers behind the knob. Use the needle noses like a lever.
|Here's a switch, I also got new knobs, but my choke cable/knob is a replacement unit,so the metal stem is not six sided and the knob does not have a hole. |
I'm afraid if I grind the old knob off, I won't find a pin and hence, the new knob will perpetually pull off. I don't want to trust it to a contact cement repair either. Any one had this experience?
|Mati, all you can do is look for a a used one.|
Ancaster British flee market is this weekend!
|Jim, the indent button goes in when I press on it, but nothing works. I was afraid to use all of my powerful south Florida strength. Maybe the needle nose pliers will work.|
since you got new knobs, I suggest you cut the old ones off with a knife. Then you can acces the push-in buttons better Lubricate them, and fit the new ones on. At least, thats what I did.
|Eric de Lange|
|Eric has a good idea. A hacksaw would work peachy methinks.|
It's entirely possible the choke cable you have is an aftermarket one from a parts house.
You CAN buy those cable assemblys in new, reproduction, either single or double cable configuration, from LBCARCO (one of our sponsors) and/or on Ebay.
|Jim, I do have a dremel, but the thought of cutting the knobs off just seems so wrong to me. I guess you can just keep cutting away until you can peel whatever is left off or it falls off. Seems like bad car karma or something.|
What about those stupid little pins that are supposed to hold the seat back in? I hate those things!
|A few weeks ago I had posted on the subject of knobs and replacement cables (see thread "Watch Those Replacements" from mid March). First, these knobs had not been off and to remove them, it was time to break out the Dremel. I found that the hex on the new cables was 6 mm and not the origianl 1/4" hex. This meant that the knobs would not stay on. I played mix and match with the components of the old and new cable assemblies to come up with cables that worked. At that point, I was really glad that I had been careful with the Dremel and made sure to stay off the hex sections. Note that I did not fiddle with the TR6 choke cable. First, that was the only one where the knob actually came off properly. Second, I switched to a later Spitfire type cable to use with the DCOE set up.|
|Seems to me you could probably put a roll pin or a tapered pin like that which holds the window winder on through the knob/shaft if there is nothing else to hold it. Just drill a hole right through to keep the knob from coming off in your hand. If it's a sloppy fit on the shaft, maybe a little epoxy or shoe goo to fill the gap, leaving time to cure before wiggling. Just a suggestion.|
|Funny you should say that Tom. My choke had the little spring and pin missing. I used a small pop rivet and it holds perfectly. Rotated to the bottom, you can't see it. |
I had a problem later with the heater knob coming off over and over, because you have to pull harder and I guess the spring was weak. I removed the pin and pop riveted that one too.
|Since this is a knob thread, perhaps one of you has a sloution to my problem. How is the dash light rheostat knob affixed to the spline on the 71 TR6? |
The knob on my TR appears to be plastic on what appears to be an aluminum spline which when turned, turns the potentiometer pickoff in the rheostat switch. Iíve looked for a detent that might contain a spring holding the knob onto the spline. If thereís one there, I have not found it. Iíve tugged rather vigorously on the knob to see if itís just pressed onto the spline. No luck and not wanting to break the knob, Iíve stopped pulling on it just shy of damage. Iíve tried turning the knob both clockwise and counterclockwise, thinking that it may be ďscrewedĒ onto the spline. Again, I stopped just short of damaging the knob. Iím at a loss as to how to remove the knob so that I can remove the wooden dash cover to refinish it. I see behind the dash that the rheostat housing has a metal bracket affixed by a screw on either side, and I suppose that I could get to that with a very small screwdriver and remove the bracket and then perhaps the entire device would come away with the wooden dash? All the other knobs, instruments etc appear to be set into the dash so that when the holding screws are removed itíll just lift off over them.
Appreciate any thoughts, comments, directions. Thanks.
I see you have posted the same question to 2 different threads. This is not necessary.
Do not worry, your question will be answered. One post is enough....we read them all.
The reostat knob is a push on/ pull off. There is no hole ( atleast in the repalcement one I have) to put a sharp object into to push in the pin. The knob is held inplace by a spring loaded round flat head pin. Mine comes off rather easily..maybe to easy. If yours does not come off them it has been glued on.
Do not force a turn CCW or CW...this will not help...well it will help to destroy the reostat.
I am not sure why you are having a problem removing the dash. The reostsat and flasher (on a '71) are screwed to the back of the wood dash and come off with the dash. Disconnect the wires to each unit, then pull the dash ..assuming all other gauges are disconected electrically and all locking thumb nuts removed along with spedo and RMP cables.
Like I said, if it does not come off then it has been glued on.
Thanks for your response. And also regarding posting protocol. Obviously I'm new to your BBS. I noted that the rheostat was screwed to the back of the dash and likely would come off when the dash was removed. From your note, I gather that my knob has probably been glued on and is not apt to come off easily or at all meaning that if I want to salvage the rheostat function, I'll have to cut the knob off and replace it, in order to get the dash clear so that I can refinish it.
You mentioned thumb screws on the Tach and Speedometer. I have not noted those but will as I proceed with this step. I gather from other comments that once those attachments are loosened, the dash will come forward and the electrical connections may be disconnected, marked etc and the dash freed up. The wood is what I would decribe as fair condition deserving a stripping and reexamination before either refinishing or replacing.
Thanks again for your comments and advice.
Might any of you who have gone through the experience of a frame off restoration either have or can point to a reference that lists a step by step approach as to what to do when. I've approached this adventure as I do in my professional life with an assessment of the total task and then broken it down into it's consitutent parts, as best I can as a novice with limited body/metal working/trim/electrical/mechanical experience. I began by amassing what has become a rather larger than anticapted library of reference materials including Roger Williams' books on restoration and improving the TR-6, and he strongly suggests having a step by step plan, but does not outline what should be done first, second, what may be done concurrently etc.
Appreciate any thoughts, especially from those who experienced something that in retrospect would have done it differently.
|D R Baker|
Just take it all apart, bag and label everything, take lots of pictures. Before you take the body off the frame, brace the body so it doesn't fold in at the doors. By the time you're at this point, you'll have a real good idea of where to go. Or if you need to farm out a lot of the work to get it finished before we walk on Mars.
It is a good idea to have a plan. It takes a lot of days doing a project at a time to get it done. I did see a step by step restoration checklist somewhere, but can't remember where.
|Here's a link that sall links to Triumph related stuff. Should keep you busy for a while..|
No offence intended to you. You will see that you will be reading all the current threads also. Also, welcome here Doug. This BBS has a lot of info on it, past and present. There is a good bunch of helfull guys here. Doug, this is YOUR BBS also. There is current thread on joining and having access to the Archives. Hours and hours of reading.
"You mentioned thumb screws on the Tach and Speedometer" Yup, dash will sit there forever if you do not remove the thumb screws. Charlie posted a response to this in another current thread re DASH KNOBS. Take a look at catalogues like Charlie says, and you will see what he means. Oh Ya.. be carefull on the strip of the dash...it is venire. (sp?) My dash is currently out for exactly the reason you wish to pull yours. I refinished it myself first go around now a professional has it. IMHO..high gloss lives.
Once the 2 main gauges are removed, the dash will come out. It is a MUST to identify all your wiring. Maybe when the dash is out, you will have more luck with the knob. All the dash knobs are available individually or as a set for your year of car. There are schematics From Dan Masters on the WWW...get them. Also Dan has an excellent book on trouble shooting our little gems. Yes you want to save the reostat but not its' function. I have posted in the past and I mention in a 2004 thread to by-pass the reostat. Easily done when the dash is out.
I have not seen a step by step procedure in frame off restoration of a TR6. Tom makes good points.
There are many TR links on the WWW. Key in "Triumph TR6" and you will be amazed! "The Roadster Factory" (TRF) has 2 MUST have publications that are free. Unfortunately, I hear one is current out of print. These 2 publications will help you beyond beleive in your restoration. You might even have them in your "library":)
I do not have an interest in Little British Car Company but Jeff has been good to me and many others on this BBS. Jeff advertises top of this page and goes to many LBC events with his trailer full of parts. Jeff is into MGs but we will convert him yet..(Hi Jeff;) http://www.LBCarCo.com Jeff has informed his "group" that parts went up in price around 20 % (not his fault...the pound and US$ thing).
I, like many others here, have done full body off restorations . I am slightly different in that I bought my "1971 project" all ready in boxes and pieces.
Doug, I think you will be a regular here. Like I said, Welcome. Your project will not be days but instead months (or years). Two things you will need: An understanding wife and bottomless piece of plastic:)
I hear you on selling off toys in the past. A 250 would be nice..not many around. (Read my first post on Bills' Big Thread).
Doug, consider the ARCHIVES as a new addition to your library. Have fun and keep us abreast of your progress....may the goose be with you.
|Doug Welcome And this is a little off the subject of this topic but I felt like I wanted to give you a clear picture of what you are about to do First, I bought my 72 in what I thought was a little fix-up and then drive kind of condition. Four years later I am just now sending for the insurance cards. I spent three times what I thought I would and I bought a lot of parts on e-bay and sent a lot of checks to the big three suppliers. I did ALL the work myself and I have a lot of experience work on cars and different machinery. I loved the experience of working on the car I know more about the car then many people know about their bodies which has helped with later trouble shooting. First, Body work is expensive to have look good The better you want it to look the more its going to cost you. Second, decide early on what kind of car/project you want to end up with in the end. Sort of like sit down and think about what you want to look like driving the car when your done. Decide what you can really do to the car to make this happen and hire someone else to do the rest. This is a great resource board I used another good one for body and paint work ASK QUESTIONS before you do anything. One of the mistakes/choices i made was to go peice meal instead of diving right in and tearing the thing completily apart which after the first 1 1/2 years I decided to do Had parts all over the place To this day I think of it as the best mental challenge I have had as to remember were all the parts were and how they fit to the car GOOD luck Dave|
|Hey, Tom, Rick and Dave,|
Thanks for your warm welcome. You (We, I guess) TR folks are certainly a fraternal bunch. I appreciate all your comments and suggestions. Tom your links reference is really great--the body of knowledge grows!!
Rick, thanks for suggesting marking the electrical connections. Would you suggest masking tape or maybe tags? I have Dan Master's Complete TR Wiring manual and his commitment of a custom upgraded complete wiring harness and the old wires must come out for painting anyway, so should I still mark everything just for a double check?
What are the TRF pubs? I have their parts catalogue, Part I and am anxiously awaiting publication of Part II. Could these be to what you refer?
Regarding months and years. I've been waiting some 30+ years to get back to a Triumph. I anticipated that it'd take some time to get everything done so I'm in no hurry. Fortunately this car is in relatively good condition. It was stored for about 18 years so things that deteroriate in storage...rubber, gaskets etc all need replacing but there is little rust and the chassis seems to be in excellent condition.
I'm fortunate in having a neighbor who has extensive experience in restoration...not LBCs but BIG American cars of years past. He has been generous with his time and advice in disassembly and first off advised that I should place each assembly in individual ziplock bags, label exactly what it was and store away until needed again. I've also listened to the admonition to not throw ANYTHING away until its replacement is in place.
Quick question for all...next on my list to buy are the rubber componets...suspension etc. It appears that there are about three choices...original rubber, upgraded polyurethane I and prothane polyurethane II. I've gathered that these vary as to stiffness of ride and, as well, longevity. Costs also vary accordingly. I have no experience in the relative value of these choices, but recognize that once committed, I'll kinda be like the pig to breakfast bacon...really committed; so I want to make the right choice. Comments?
|D R Baker|
When I replaced my dash, I got out the ol' digital camera and took TONS of photos of everything - wires, how they were run, etc. My wife laughed at me until I got around to putting the thing back together a week later. Don't trust you'll remember every detail from when you took it apart. If you do label everything, USE PEN! Pencil on masking tape fades pretty quick.
It helps I've got a server in the basement and a networked workstation in the garage in the event I need to refer to any archives from this board. We have a great bunch of guys (I have yet to see a post from a gal) here who's combined knowledge far exceeds that of a flock of geese (No offense to Jim's honker intended).
Don from Jersey
Masking tape with black marker...yes or no. Well if you are replacing the harness anyway I do not see much point. I am sure Dans' wiring colours will match a schematic supplied with the harness. It depends if you are going to do a full strip down now or drive it for the summer then start the restore. ( It kinda sounds like you have started to do the strip down).
Yes the TRF pub(s) you have are what I am talking about. It has been a while for Part II to be out of publication.
Sounds like she came out of the proverbial barn:)
I think you will find most chaps saying go poly. all around. Can not say I have heard of pro.poly. II.
Depending on your year ( what year is she?) check the dif mounts for reinforcment. A must do thing.
Have fun..keep us posted as to your progress.
PS. I still have tins full of old bolts...maybe it is time to get rid of them:)
When doing mine, I went through the TRF books and then proceded to Carquest and ordered bolts,nuts,washers,and nylocks in all the different sizes and lengths. When putting it back together it was easy..just open the bin and there was the correct NEW size. I think it cost me about $170.00...well worth it.
|I replaced upper suspension bushings about a year ago with rubber. They look like hell already cracked around the edges that you see. But they work fine. I'd be tempted to use some soft urethane bushes next time. But I have no desire to make it ride harder if I can help it. Old guys, you know...|
Sounds like you got your car the right way! You know what you are starting with, and when you finish, there is never any doubt as to what's underneath! We looked at a couple of 'running cars' before buying our '74, which had also been stored 18 years! Verified by the newspapers the engine parts were wrapped in! I figure we saved over $5000 by buying a basket case, same as Rick C did.
A book you might want to get is Roger Williams 'How to Restore TR5/250 &TR6. Mostly geared to a TR250, but still loaded with a lot of good info & pix! Interior assembly info was invaluable to me, as the only interior parts I got were a steering wheel, gauges, and switches. Seats had to be recovered, but there was no carpet or trim panels in place, so I lived in that book for a dew days, but I also had a couple of friends cars for good examples. Rick Orthen e-mailed some weatherstip pix that helped! Ebay pix were a good place to look, as they occasionally show some close detail you might be looking for.
But my best advice: ask questions and have fun!
|I was really paying attention, wasn't I? Sorry I missed that you had William's book.....(blame it on the Rum & Coke!?!?!) Good thing I wasn't working on my car tonight!!!|
Also...I put the poly bushes in, and seems to be fairly comfortable going down the road, not to stiff. I don't think the regular poly will stiffen the ride much, just won't wear as fast, and keeps a certain amount of precision in how the suspension operates. I didn't have the opportunity to drive the car with rubber bushings in first, so my observations are a bit one-sided?
|Good Morning guys, |
Thanks for the advice and comments. Regarding the suspension bushing, I've been sort of leaning to the soft poly as probably the best all around choice. TRF has a sale going on that ends today with up to 40% discount on some items. I've sent a big order for stuff that I won't need for awhile, but with the Pound/dollar relationship, we're not apt to see these prices again for some time.
The car is 1971. Had 75K original miles. I purchased from the second owner who had had it since the late 70s. It had had one rather limited and half-hearted attempt at restoration some years back which helped keep it in pretty good condition. The gas tank and radiator had already been cleaned and sealed and are disconnected so it was not in driveable condidtion when I bought it. I was assured though that connecting these, working the carbs with some Marvel Mystery oil and some patience and it'd run. Didn't try it. Didn't need to.
New question...I have the dash out...well almost. The rheostat came out with the dash. I'll figure out how to get the knob off on my work bench. I removed the thumb nuts on the tach and speedometer, but have not figured out how to disconnect the wiring. (I'm assuming here that there are no stupid questions:)) The two wire connnections to the tach and speedometer appear to be spring loaded, that is when I tug on them at the connection, thinking that they are push on connection, a spring is somehow involved. I tried turning the wire thinking that there might be some release circumferentially, but no luck. Thoughts, ideas and even you dumb S**t this is how you do are most welcome.
When the speedometer came out of the dash the bezel loosened and then the bezel, glass and glass retainer came apart. There was what appeared to be a bead of black cualk in the groove cushioning the glass from the bezel. It was hardened and fell apart...no further use. There were also gaskets..."O" rings around both the tach and speedometer. Question are what was the black goop stuff and where do I get more to replace what was there to reassemble the speedometer AND where do I get the O rings or gaskets. None of the parts manuals I have show these O rings as a called out part!! I have one reference in my "library" of contacts who rebuilds instruments. Before I refer to him, thought some of you might have had similiar experiences.
Last question today...you guys are a treasure trove, for sure...bumper rechroming...I have two sources; one in Florence Alabama that has tentatively estimated around $950.00 total to redo the two bumpers, subject to inspection of current condition. The price could come down some. Another source in Elizbethton Tennessee offers a triple coated rechrome, lifttime guarantee to the original buyer all for $280/per bumper. BIG difference here. Of course, new bumpers are available but I've been advised that rechroming the original is a much better thing to do. Comments? Are these prices reasonable? Would any of you recommend any other sources?
Thanks. I look forward to your comments. Oh yeah, I do have a digital camera and am recording each step as I proceed both for reassembly and as a record of the adventure.
|D R Baker|
There is a guy on eBay selling the gaskets. He lists them quite regularly and only has a "Buy it Now" price. They're $11-$12 dollars a set I think. I've got his card at home. It you need his contact info, please let me know. I ordered a set and they fit perfect.
Don from Jersey
There are no dumb questions when it comes to a TR.
At 40% off BUY THEM!!!!...buy them all..well just the ones to do your car all around:) You will not regret going poly. Yes prices are going up big time..MOSS did it at the beginning of the month.
(((((On removing the wires to the tach and spedo "you dumb S**t this is how you do " it. (sorry Doug, you suggested I put it this way...just kiddin with ya:)
After you read this you will probably want to go out to the garage and bang your head against the wall for a while:) The wires (Red/White) are spring loaded...there are your bulbs to do the gauge illumination thing along with other functions (different colour wires). Grab the bulb holder and pull it out (of the gauge socket) not the wire. You might want to check these bulbs out as they are easy to replace now. )))))
OK, now re-reading your post, maybe you are talking about the spedo cable and tach cable. At the connection point to the gauge is a thumb screw ring. Un-screw and pull straight out.
The black goop I think was to hold the glass in place and to keep it from vibrating. Ordinary black caulking will do for the replacement. Clean the glass and give a flat black spray to the retaining ring. You will notice the retaining ring has little locking tabs to hold it to the gauge. The big O ring. No idea on where you can get one new. It would not be the end of the world if you leave it out.
Go with the triple coated rechrome. Rechroming the OE bumpers is a far better idea. New bumpers are not as good a metal and you will get longer shinny life out of rechrome (lifetime). Price sounds very reasonable. There is a 2004 archive post from guys your neck of the woods re some shops.
It is fun for me to look back at my "recorded" restore along with the wife comments for each dated picture. " kitchen counter covered in parts for polishing". When I show my car, it is intersting to watch people go through the album.
Rod, yes saved well over $5000 but spent that (and more) in the end; but I know every single nut and bolt by name:)
Doug, e-mail me off line with a fax number. I have some helpfull drawings showing the dash wiring only. ( in my e-mail address remove the "at" and the ".dot").
Rick C 1971 TR6
FYI, regarding the rheostat knob, here's the response that I just received from Jay Martin of Revington TR...
Apologies for the delay.
There is a spring & a little pip on the shaft of the rheostat ,like most switches.
For some reason (mystery)they never provided an access hole in the knob to allow you to depress the pip & effortlessly remove it.
So you need to pull & lever the knob off ,a little loose juice will help if you apply it with a thin pipe to the front of the knob.
If you end up wrecking it,part number,621726,theyre only a couple of quid(2.16)
|D R Baker|
|I just removed the dash on my '71 TR6 earlier this year. I used Martin's latter method and completely destroyed the rheostat knob getting it off. But, he's right. The knob is like $3-4 to replace. |
A little advice. I got my dash back in a few weeks ago and ran into some problems that would be much easier to deal with while the dash is out.
Earlier in this post someone mentioned bypassing your rheostat if it doesn't work. I would advise you to analyze it now to see if it works. If it doesn't, then bypass it. I think the rheostat itself (not the knob) is kind of expensive.
Another point of advice is to check to see that the hazard switch works while you have the dash out. You can kind of take it apart and knock some of the buildup off. This is important because (for reasons unknown) on the earlier TR6's the turn signal wiring is routed through the hazard switch, so the hazard switch must have good inards for the turn signals to work. (See more on this in a recent post regarding turn signal lights.)
Anyway, I was in your situation last August. I got my car home and started tearing it apart. Now I'm at the point of finishing up the interior and then I'll be thinking about paint. But, I have been driving the car around town lately - and it is an awesome feeling of accomplishment having brought it back to life.
Man! you must have worked on her literally all winter. Or just a little spuceing up was needed. Gotta agree on the accomplishment thing.
I am the one who posted about the reostat. The reostat should be bypassed period. Being what it is, it is a potential fire hazzard under the dash. Besides, who dims the dash lights?
|It wasn't a frame-off, but I did do quite a bit. The body and frame were straight and solid - hardly any body work to do except patch some chipped spots and paint. The work I did was mostly mechanical except for the interior which needed a complete overhaul. Engine rebuild, rear suspension overhauled, complete brake system overhaul, cooling system overhauled, etc. After driving it some I realize that I'll need to overhaul the front suspension and tighten up the steering sometime. But, I'll save that and other things for winter. It's too nice to have Nigel (my TR6) on jack stands right now.|
|Doug Re the O-rings, I haven't checked the box I have of TR6 gauges to see what size the O-rings are but if you check in the yellow pages under seals- orings or seals -gaskets you will find an o-ring suplier. O-rings come in standard sizes and there are hundreds of them. Got the ones for my TR2 same way, $.20 ea. Take a sample and or your gauge with you. Bought my six in boxes but the previous owner did bag and label all. Got about $100.00 worth of rubbermaid tubs as part of the deal. Good luck!|
Thanks for y'all's input. I got a full set of O rings from TRF for, I think, about $7.50. This includes the two large ones for the Tach and Spedo and 4 smaller ones for the other gauges. Cain, I liberally dosed the rheostat knob with WD-40 last night and after a few days will work some more on getting that sucker loose. I don't give up easily:)
Rick, thanks for insight regarding the fire hazard and bypassing the rheostat. I think that I'm going to leave it original for now and when I get to replacing the wiring harness that Dan Masters is builidng for me, I'll revisit this aspect.
When disconnecting the instrument lights...should those holes be covered with something like duct tape (1st on list of 10 best tools to have) to keep errant dust, moisture etc out of the instrument? It may be some time before they go back in the car.
New question...took the front bumper off last night in preparation for solving my towing issue. The bumper will be rechromed BUT the nut the bolts connected to are enclosed in a welded up stand off bracket. No way to get inside to address what I fully expect to be substantial corrosion. How do I get at this? I'm not sure that I want to spend $500-600 rechroming the bumpers and live a cancer of corrosion/rust attaching them to the car!!
Also, there is a slight misalignment of the front valence and the bumper extension from the frame, although the bolt hole is still open. For anyone who has has experience with this, would I be better served to go ahead and remove the valence to hook up my towing apparatus or just cushion the connection somehow?
|D R Baker|
No I would not cover the holes with Red Green tape. The holes ARE your ground point for some of the bulb holders and crap from the tape left over a long period of time is just going to be left there and you will have to clean it up. Bag the guages or cover them with a cloth and store in a dry place.
"BUT the nut the bolts connected to are enclosed in a welded up stand off bracket."
I think you are refering to the brakets ON the bumper. Yes the nuts are welded there. My 4 brakets are open on the sides as can be seen in TRF book PLATE FJ. ( I hope this is the one you have ...not sure which one is out of print..blue or green book)
My rear bumper ones where rusted pretty bad. The nuts where virtually gone. I had the chrome shop die grind the old ones down and weld in new ones. Forgot to tell them fine thread so had to change the bolt:)
Remove the front valance??? I think it is best to leave body integrity alone. You might be opening up another can of worms if you remove it. The valance is your entire front body support structure. Just my humble opinion. What about BIG ring bolts through the valance to the bumper brakets. Not sure if this is strong enough though.
Just remembered that rental places specializing in small moving trailers will rent you a set of car dollie wheels that your front wheels will go onto an then trailered behind your jeep. Worth considering??
Cain, YU'al have winter done there?
My stand off brackets are enclosed on all four sides!! No access to the interior w/o cutting one of the welds. No idea why they are this way. I would have expected one side to be open. They are permanently affixed to the bumper and have only the bolt hole for access. I'm sure that they are, at a minumum, rusty inside because the back side of the bumper is rusted pretty well! I guess I'll just have to let the rechrome guy figure it out. Maybe one side should be cut open and then cleaned up and painted inside and left open?! Maybe the bottom side?
I'll leave the valance in place, but it appears to only be bolted to the wings with 3 bolts on either side. Removing it would give direct access to the frame/bumper extension, but bolting directly through the existing hole shall present little problem either. I'll drill a single hole through the tow bar attachement brackets and use a rated 3/4" bolt to attach to the frame. Next step is to move the TR from the storage site to my home where I can attack disassembly in ernest. I also need to have mobility when a restore bay opens up at the local auto craft shop. I'm in the queqe for one, but the wait is variable depending on the incumbent's rate of completion. If not ready to occupy when called you go to the bottom of the list!
|D R Baker|
|"Cain, YU'al have winter done there?"|
What I call winter and what you call winter are probably two different things. Arkansas does have a complete change of seasons, but after I got the rebuilt engine back in my TR6 I took it for a spin in December with the top off if that tells you anything. It may get down to like 20F in January or February and it might snow two or three times a year here in central Arkansas.
About mid-March the tulips are coming out of the ground and the convertible tops are dropped.
Of course the relatively mild winters are off-set by the July and August extremely high temperatures and humidity. Be looking for my post regarding how to install an aftermarket air conditioner come July.
|Doug Rick is 100% about not removing the valence. The front wings are actually bolted to the valence and inner fenders. The inner fenders and valence are (should be) welded to each other to form internal structure for wings, hood etc. The only way the valence come off is with a torch or can opener. I know it's been sugested to trailer (rent, beg, borrow)perhaps some of the people doing your work have a trailer you can borrow.|
Thanks for the comment. I think the setup I have will work fine. I've removed the bumper, which BTW, had the standoffs completely welded all around with no access inside...??? Anyway, the extension from the frame to the bumper appear to be at least 1/4" channel iron, strong enough to tow the LBC. I drilled 3/4" holes through the tow brackets and got level 5 rated bolts and nuts (1/2") to bolt the brakets onto the supports. The valence is in between so it'll just be bolted down to the bumper supports. I did not note that it was welded to the inner wings. I only saw 3 bolts on either side and if removed appeared to be removable. I need to readdress and make sure the weld is there as you say. Soon (I hope) I'll be pulling the tub from the chassis to take to the paint/body shop. Well actually I'll take the whole thing there and expect to get a chassis back to rework whilst they are painting. I've read the literature on bracing the door frames. Is there a way to do this without welding the channel iron to one of the posts? Is there a standard brace arrangement available either by description, i.e. drawing or actual part number from some source?
|D R Baker|
|Hi Doug I know in one of these threads I have read over the last 2 weeks there was ref. to restoration books. I have "How to Restore Triumph TR5/250 & TR6"|
by Roger Williams. It has a few pictures of ways to brace the tub. When I pulled tub, I riveted a piece of 3/4 x 3/4 x 1/8 th angle to the base of the A-post with three rivets and attached the other end to a recessed nut at the top inside of the B-post. This was bare minimal. The best one I saw was in the above book and mounts on the door hinge nuts on the A-post, the door catch nuts on the B-post and ties to the E-brake mount for side to side stability. I'm sure there are lots of options out there. I found Williams' book to be very helpfull. Brian
|I'm not saying to forget the research, but your body guys will have good ideas and maybe their own favorite way of keeping your body in shape while they do the work. Give them your ideas and take their advice.|
I have seen pics at restoration specialist places that build custom jigs to hold the body as they replace all the rusted panels and braces. These are the expensive places that will have your car perfect when it leaves the shop, but charge accordingly. Like the amount the whole car will sell for later.
Lots of decisions here. How much can you afford versus return on investment. Compromises are usually necessary unless the car is virtually rust free.
|Last note on rheostat knob...Jay Martin of Revington was correct...after a week of WD-40 soaking (#2 on list of 10 best tools of all time) and a very firm final tug, the knob literally popped off. The spring'ed detent in the spline may have been "frozen" with aluminum oxide from the spline, but it's freed up now and the knob came off undamaged. Lesson to be learned is patience and a liberal dose of WD-40 will out in the end:) Thanks to everyone for their thoughts, comments and suggestions.|
Now a have another one, but I'll start a new thread for that.
|D R Baker|
This thread was discussed between 13/04/2004 and 17/05/2004
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