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Triumph TR6 - Rear hubs and Diff seals
|Have read many threads on hubs IE, if they have play, change 'em. Not necessarily so. Had a lot of slack on one side - wheel rocked alarmingly, but bo noise.Pulled the hub and shaft (30 mins), adjusted the bearing (after stethoscoping the bearing to be sure it was sound), put it back in - perfect, quiet, no movement, so don't do more than you have to.Now a question. My diff seals are all leaking and it looks like a similar situation in removing the flanges to removing the hubs (Damn the Brits, this was'nt necessary). Does anyone have experience in doing this. Pulling the diff was easy and it is sitting on the ground awaiting the next move. Peter G|
I await a reply also to this thread. My front seal looks like needs replacing and am not sure if I have the colapsable spacer or not and if this is a problem if just replacing the front oil seal (1971).
Oh Ya...the dif can be removed without removing the exhaust system assuming a single pipe system.
|Peter&Rick-My experience is probably not typical, but in rebuilding 2 diffs, the inner axle flanges came off using a heavy duty home made press with a 8 ton bottle jack. Most people end up taking the axles to a shop with a very large press.The seals are available from a bearing shop-CR16054 for the axles, CR15207 for the pinion. The diffs with the solid spacer came with a castellated nut and locking wire, whereas the collasible spacer used a nylock nut. However, the nut, gears, or even the diff may have been changed by a previous owner. According to the Moss&TRF catalog, the change from the solid spacer changed in 71-72, but a lot of people with later cars have indicated they still had the solid spacer. Might as well add a drain plug while the diff is out. |
|All the evidence says this has NOT been apart before so it looks like I have the non collapsible spacer (from Berry's info). However, have changed many front diff seals, and what definately works, if in doubt , is to CAREFULLY mark, W/ a very small chisel or punch, the nut, the flange, AND the flange in relation to the spline. Tighten carefully back to the old marks and you KNOW you are back where you started, collapsible spacer or not.Have never had a failure.|
Re axle flange seals, I made up a puller, left the diff on it's side w/ tension on, filled the 'well' with penetrating oil - it may pop off in the nite, or I'll heat the flange in the am, with a few prayers.Will report success or lack of. Peter G
I clearly have the castellated nut and locking wire and like Peter says looks like never been apart. My 6 is May 71. Peter, like you idea of the marking for the pinion flange. Will deffinitely be considering the installation of a drain plug. You look at the bottom of the front case and there is a spot for one.
|Update as promised. I failed to remove the diff axle flanges - took them to a competent machine shop and so far, they cannot get em apart either, even under a press with heat applied. No other way to change the seals. They are a lot stronger (the flanges) than the wheel hubs but am still wary of damage, but they HAVE to come apart. Peter G|
When I had my shafts pressed out of their flanges
it took the guy four days and 60 tons of constant pressure before they let go.
The axle flange as I understand should come off the bearing to the outside. With a block of hardwood and a BFH. Have some way of catching axle. The bearing requires removal in the opposite direction with a press if the memory is right. I think it locates on a small flange on the axle. The bearing and flange will not come apart as one.
I researched this many years ago never did it and may not have it right??? But worth checking! Wound up getting a cheap donor. I can't see a machine shop with a stroke press having problems unless they are trying to take apart as an assembly. A small jack type operated press may because it won't shock part.
In my experience do not heat and use a press at the same time on any precision part. Hammer and block is usually OK with heat because you are not putting continuous strain on it.
I usually stay out of things I haven't tried first hand but this may be the problem from your post.
When you looked at them. What was the main problem getting them apart? Rust or what? Did the shop give you any idea.
|I had a very good shop in seattle try mine, and they have the proper press and have done lots of these. They gave up after 3 days. I ended up sending them to TRF and when they came back they "look" very nice.|
|Bill-FWIW,The problem with the inner axles is the same as the outer hubs-a 7 deg(I think) taper that grows to the mating part. Rust doesn't seem to be a factor. I don't know what most shops use, but I have a bearing separator that clamps around the flange to support it in the press. The bearing&flange come off in the same direction, but are removed seperatly. I agree, that sometimes the shock of a big hammer works better than a press.|
|Peter and Bill,|
No there was no rust, just age and maybe cold welding.
|I threw in the towel and called TRF - for $45 plus parts per side, they'll do it. Not worth any further effort. 30 years in Hawaii you are lucky if anything comes apart - warmth, moisture and salt. I am guessing they have a system which applies well supported pressure plus impact. Peter|
|Peter- Did you ask them the total cost per side?. If I remember it was a couple (2-3) hundred $.|
Ok I have heard 60 ton press constant pressure for 3 days. Never got them off no matter what but no rust etc.
Gotta be a trick boys and girls. And I think I know what it is???? Lots of top engineers on this sight so correct me if I missed.
Don't think hot think cold? Move over Chickens and roasts the axles coming in. Considering the time frame technology the unit may be what was once called a cold fit. Only done for extreme precision as I recall. Tapers in lathes for instance. Simplified. Put part in freezer for a day or so and assemble. Warm up to room and won't come apart. Ring gear on flywheels concept.
Cold shrinks. Works better taking apart if its instant cold. "Nitrogen" I will call my local nitro-fit man and post back. Don't know the cost but I think its the way its done?
|One final question in this saga - all TRF did in the end was seperate shaft from flange as all parts were on back order and I have them already.|
While I was waiting, pulled drive and axle shafts to replace U-joints and it has occurred to me to rotate hub bearing carriers 180 degrees to even out the wear - prolong bearing life. However(damn the human mind - mine anyway) am now wondering if this could disrupt existing wear patterns and accelerate failure. Any body ever done this, or have any thoughts. Peter
|My club, the best in the country "ISOA" does a clinic once a year where we overhaul the rear hubs for any member in need. We have done about 12 of these in a one day period with a lot of sweat! One of our members is good on a lathe and made a "hub tool" as pictured in many of the manuals and also shown on the Buckeye site. He made this tool from some of the hardest tool steel available and it works very well. Even with this tool we still need to use a 4 to 6 foot breaker bar and a huge vice. Not using a proper tool WILL BEND the hub so don't try this with standard tools. We have found that any amount of heat does not do any good at all! It is strictly a corosion and cold welding force that holds this together. Once we crack them it is just a matter of cleaning and replacing all the bearings and seals. The other important item in reassembly is adjusting the crush washer for a .002 to .004 play. This is not hard, just go slow near the end! Steve Yott|
This thread was discussed between 17/03/2003 and 27/04/2003
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