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Triumph TR6 - Rear Wheel Alignment - TR6
|Being optimistic on getting the TR6 on the road by the end of August I am thinking ahead to wheel alignment issues. Installing a new, stock steering rack with new outer tie rod ends and solid, aluminum rack mounts which does not appear to pose any problems but am a little concerned about rear wheel alignment, especially with expensive new Yokes riding on the corners. It appears each trailing arm bracket had 4 shims per side when I pulled it all apart; that's 4 x 4 and there was no appreciable wear on the rear tires so I'm assuming (probably a mistake to assume anything) that there were no issues. Question is, is there a defined number of shims per side or is it determined solely by the particular characteristics of the car. I know that the Moss catalog has an article from a guy who has done a lot of experimenting and Nelson of Buckeye Triumphs has posted extensively but sometimes a wealth of info is too much info. Has it been anybody's experience that a good alignment shop can set up a TR6 correctly or should I count on doing the job on the rear myself by trial and error? BTW - there is a local shop very familiar with TR6 front-end alignment but they have no prior experience with the rear end set up as being a rear-wheel drive car, nobody raised the issue.|
1976 TR6 Still on Jack Stands
|Bob, any shop should have "experience" with a TR6 front end...it's as simple as it gets.|
Thanks, but the local shop has a guy who's very good with TR6 front ends. The question relates to the rear end alignment.
|Our local shop doesn't really help you, but what I can tell you is that they do like it when a TR-4A IRS/TR-250/TR-6 is fitted with Richard Good's adjustable trailing arm brackets.|
The shims you mention are for toe adjustment and that isn't really that big a deal. Camber adjustment on the other hand isn't really addressed by Triumph, but can be adjusted by different combinations of trailing arm brackets and notch orientation. In other words, it can be done but it is a pain somewhat removed from the neck as you must remove and replace brackets with a certain amount of trial and error involved.
Enter Richard's brackets, now camber adjustment is just a matter of loosening pivot bolts and turning the adjustment screws accordingly, then retightening the pivot bolts.
Since you're a regular, you might recall my mini-rants on the accompanying hardware, but the brackets themselves are beautiful. Swap out the hardware supplied for appropriate AN/MS hardware and your or the alignments guy's life will be a little bit better.
What Steve sez....We had my car done in 45 minutes. Front and rear, aligned with the appropiate amount of dead weight in the drivers seat. That's right, Don K,
it was me!
This was one of the better upgrades, & consider the T/A bushing set he has. Good stuff!
|Uhh Steve: that's good to know. Could you please, please send me a set of those Richard Good brackets? :0)|
P.S. I've spent so much money lately it's probably not a stretch to add Richard's brackets to my list of stuff
"I just have to have". Geez, that kitchen cabinet upgrade will have to wait again.
|Steve,You RANT, Naw, say it isn't so!|
|Bob, my point is that every shop has a guy thats "good" with TR-6 front ends...anyone who claims they are is probably not worth having work on your car they are beyond simplistic to adjust in the world of front end alignments. If they are "very familiar" with TR6 front end alignments and claims so then they ought to be a whiz at the TR6 rears. I'm unsure if you get my drift but hopefully you do.|
|Gotcha JT. Just never had the conversation with the shop about the rear. When I took it in last Spring to get the front end aligned we found a bad inner tie rod and they could not do the alignment. I parked it for most of last Summer and it's been on jack stands now since April this year. When the new steering rack goes in real soon with the engine swap we will be looking at the rear end alignment also. I've decided to order Richard's kit. For $129.00 it's not worth fooling around with shims.|
|Bob, you're still going to have fool around with the shims. As stated above, the shims are for adjusting the rear toe. You can't get away from them. |
What the adjustable trailing arm brackets do for you is two fold. They present a way to adjust the rear camber without going through the gyrations of having to swap out different notch brackets and orientations at the innner and outer positions on each side to adjust the camber to where you want it. If you have camber settings that you want to achieve, the procedure is to measure your current camber, consult the painstakingly put together tables and find the delta between what you have and what you want. Then you swap out for the various notch brackets with notches oriented up or down and remeasure. If you're lucky, you get it right on the first try. If not, you repeat the bracket swap out and flip procedure until you get it right. Richard's brackets save you from all swapping and flipping. And of course you have to check toe during all of this as the toe and camber varies somewhat as the other is changed due to the semi-trailing arm design of the rear suspension.
They second thing is that they provide some limited ride height adjustment. It's not uncommon for the ride height to be slightly different side to side on the rear and this allows that to be balanced out in all but the most extreme cases. But the big deal is really the camber adjustment without all of the bracket swapping and flipping.
|Thanks Steve for the very clear explanation, which BTW I will take to the alignment shop when I get all this stuff back together. I will definitely be buying Richard's kit and all this info should make for a good alignment.|
|Nylatron bushings....that's what I was trying to think of...and old-timer's disease set in!|
They really do complete the package.
|My feeling, keep them out of the TA and diff mountings!!|
|Just ordered the adjustable trailing arm brackets. Looked at the Nylatron, Rod but there is more negative than positive feedback on Nylatron due to its hardness, which some claim and I do not know this from experience, creates undue stresses on the diff and TA mounts and gives a harsher ride. IMHO, the miles I will put on rubber bushings and mounts each year will not greatly affect them and they are not that difficult to replace. That being said, 4 years ago I put polyurethane red bushings in the front upper A arms and they are still supple and quiet. The rubber ones I put in first squeaked a lot. Getting very close to putting it back together now. Working on (Bob Danielson's) tube shock mount reinforcing brackets from angle iron and 1/8" steel plate.|
|First, nylatrons are very hard. Here's my take:|
When I replaced the poly bushings, I disconnected the shocks, pulled the springs, brake assy's and axles. All that was left was the trailing arm. It was in a bind from the poly bushings, and did not pivot without me physically grabbing it and moving it. Very stiff and the way the polys install, they have to be "squeezed" into the brackets. Say what you want about the Nylatrons, but after I get them installed, the trailing arm literally swings freely. IMHO, the suspension works a little better, and there is no harshness in ride. We just put 1200 plus miles on the car this weekend, usually get about 5000 miles a year. It don't ride harsh, and I got the t-shirt to prove it. I've noticed a lot of criticism concerning this issue, and I'd bet most of that coming from people that have not done it to their car.
Maybe get a set of the instructions from Richard on the bushings, and see why they work so much better.
The end of my rant for the month.
|Shoot Rod, It's only the 15. You still got half a month to get another shot in.|
Did you miss me last week end ?
First, the webmaster emailed all of us and said at the rate DK posts his rants as of late, the rest of us are limited to one per month! ;)
Miss you? We were at the All Triumph DRIVE-IN. Translation: Drive your Triumph to the event! (ouch)
Where the heck were you?
|Both out of commission and it didn't seem to be worth going over as everyone was gone all day Sat on the drive.|
And I DON"T RANT
Mounted the exhaust today. First time in 11 years at least it had an exhaust on it.
Carbs remounted on the intake and set on the manifold loosely .
Now to fix the fuel pump and line situation.
You know, all that road grime is a pain when it falls in your eyes.
Did you win any thing?
|A t-shirt! I'll post a pic later.|
Keep working on that car....Get it running and you'll like it enough to keep it!
After receiving Goodparts adjustable trailing arm bracket kit and Richard's note that Nylatron bushings are recommended I guess I have to agree with you but mostly because of the first-hand experience you related with your own setup. Nothing makes a recommendation like the experience of the guy who's driving the modification. So - after I get everything else done I will go nylatron but for now I have to stop buying stuff and install everything I now have in the boxes.
P.S. How did Don get road grime on his TR6? In the garage? Sorry Don - couldn't resist!
This thread was discussed between 08/08/2011 and 22/08/2011
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