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Triumph TR6 - spin-on oil filter adaptor leaks
|I'd welcome help with the oil seal on spin-on oil filter adaptor. When I re-installed the adaptor, using the standard seal, the joint leaked. I over-tightened the central bolt and that reduced the leak but didn't eliminate it. So the question is, how do I cure the leak?|
Many years ago I remember that, when ordering kits, two seals of different thickness were provided so that you could experiment and find the one that provided the best seal. So does anyone provide multiple seals of different thickness? Or are there any creative alternative solutions that I can use?
Don't know of OE but for anything like that I always go to a place like rubberline. Industrial and hydraulic supply. Guy usualy takes a look at my sample and hands over a few to try. Here's rubberlines sight. There only in Canada but Some of there suppliers like Garlock have a store locator I would imagine in Texas. Give you a start.
I went through this in April. This was the explanation given to me by Dave at TRF: The outer 'groove' (for the large o-ring) that the adaptor fits into is too deep in relation to the center surface (where the small o-ring seats). (The reason the canister didn't leak is the center is 'spring-loaded' and adjusts to the height for the center o-ring.) Your choices are to get a thinner o-ring for the center, or even fabricate a paper gasket and leave the o-ring out altogether. I opted for permatex gasket sealer, and didn't lose a drop after I did that.
TRF checked several blocks, and found that the outer groove varies from block to block, and was machined as deep as the operator felt like going at that moment! How's that for precision engineering!?
|Jim -Make sure you still don't have an old seal stuck in the groove. It is a common problem.|
I had the same problem last year and decided to abandon it. I spent 2 hours playing with it and decided it wasn't worth another 2 hours to save 10 minutes per oil change. And based on Rod's post about the random depth of the groove, 2 hours may be a conservative estimate (at least for me).
Since cannister filters are still available at TRF, its a mod I can live without.
some produkt info; It makes filter changing easier (and cleaner) and prevents oil draining back into the sump thus avoiding the 'start-up rattle'.
So, not only a save of 10 min. per oil change.
Make another effort.
|Eric de Lange|
While I knew that the neatness/convenience for the serviceman (me) was a plus for the adapter, this is the first I have heard anyone suggest the car likes it better.
From what I can see in the diagrams of oil flow, the car's getting no help from the cup of oil in the filter until the pressure comes up below it. Only once it flows past the filter does the engine benefit. The head start of that cup seems to me to be too small to make much difference.
Don't get me wrong...If it were a clean install I would have done it. But unless it really does benefit the engine, the decision's based on convenience vs effort and this one didn't cut it.
Any other thoughts on the subject?
|I'll only quote what the Haynes manual sez: Chapter 1-23 (pg.30), 4th paragraph in regards to the eccentric rotor oil pump. " The pump is the non-draining variety to allow rapid pressure build-up when starting from cold." |
Oil leakage back should be low for that type of pump if driven regularly. If it sits for a month, though.... And no, I haven't memorized the manual - this is just above the oil flow diagram & description consulted for the external oil feed line post.
|It's gotta be about more than convenience. Does anyone have info on filtering/hydraulic performance differences between the cartridge and spin-on filters? I would think that the selection of cartridges, and the performance, is very limited (a single supplier?). As we all know, the spin-on selection is huge with some models having superior performance characteristics|
|Gents and Geese,|
I'd refer you all to the oil filter comparison site at:
Alzo, there is discussion of 'drain back' since one of the functions (or so I'm lead to believe) is to disallow oil from 'draining back' (depending, of course, on position of the filter) and presenting the opportunity for the 'dry start' that we experience.
That having been said, I've had, for many years, exception service from Wix filters in many applications. The reputation is second to none in everything I've read.
And there you have yet another opinion.
The goose even uses Wix flitters, errr filters.
|That's good Jim, but where is the data for cartridges?|
|Having converted to spin-on a long time ago, I no longer feel inclined to use a cartridge on the TR. The cartridge of choice for geese in these parts seems to be 12 gauge.|
|A. J. Koschinsky|
|I'll wager the old rubber O ring is still in the groove. Take a pin and bend the end to form a small hook. Jam it in the groove and pull out the old O ring. The problem is that rubber to rubber will not make a good seal. Otherwise its a good system|
|Oh, sorry Rick. No cartridges it seems.|
Hmmm, I wonder what that means?
My 1950 Chevrolet had a cartridge oil filter. It seemed to work pretty well though I haven't a clue what filter brand it was (I was 16) since that was just 40 years ago. sigh.
AJ, improved cylinder I'd assume. <G>
Jim (hiding the goose)
|Jim--I don't think the lack of cartridge data means anything other than the focus of the study was common use, i.e., spin-on's. It is interesting that some car manufacturers are returning to the cartridge setup.|
|So what I gather here, mostly from Eric's original comments, and Jim's posted link, is that the key difference is the anti-drainback functions of the spin-on filter itself, as long as you buy a filter that has it. Both approaches have bypass valves so that's a wash.|
I'd bet the elements are probably the same and probably made by the same manufacturers. For me with only 1000-2000 miles between oil changes (weekend driver), its not likely an issue anyway. Wix still makes this filter, and based on Jim's four-goose rating, I have to check with TRF who makes theirs. I got a Wix last year at my local store.
For those of you more dilligently working this problem, if you find a process to size the o-rings, please pass it along. Still not sure on my direction, but thanks for the input.
|I'll offer something here. On startup (brand new engine), oil went everywhere - frozen relief valve - this tells you just how much oil that pump can move - actually blew out the O rings and the filter seal too while pegging the gauge. Anyhow, put the filter adaptor on w/ the smaller O ring and coated it w/ 3M anerobic, ( I love this stuff) and now only the filter seal blew out (obviously I had'nt figured the problem yet). Since then, oil changes are quick and clean, I installed the filter dead vertical so not only do you spill none but you can fill the new filter for no delay in pressure build up and no drain back valve required. I would never use the old system after this.|
Peter 74 TR6
This thread was discussed between 08/12/2003 and 17/12/2003
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