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Triumph TR6 - TR6 homologation papers

Does anyone know if the TR6 was ever homologated and if there are any papers with the specifacations for the homologation? I'm looking for them for a 69 TR6 that I'm building as a vintage race car. Thanks, Charly
Charly Mitchel

Charly- Where you home based?
Don K.
DON KELLY

Go to the web-site for FOT (Friends of Triumph), a bunch of ordinary guys like you who love to race their TR's.

http://www.fot-racing.com/

You will need to get someone who knows you to sponsor you so you can get on their list. When you are accepted, you can ask all kinds of questions like this one you asked here and you will get 20 guys giving you the info you need.

It's much like this BBS but it's 99% related to racing mods, advice, help, etc. - but for Triumphs only !!

Send an e-mail message to the "webmaster" on their home page telling them you would like to get on their list.

Don Elliott, 1958 TR3A, Montreal, Canada
Don Elliott

I'm in Tacoma. I'm a partner in a British car parts business called British Sports & Spares, I also own 10 British cars.
Charly Mitchel

OK

What does that term mean? Last time I heard anything like that DR. was telling me I should give up all my good habits. Ones that I enjoy at least.

Lets not turn TRs into Microsoft speak please.

Bill
Bill Brayford

What term are you referring to? I'm a bit confused.
Charly Mitchel

Homologate: to approve esp. to confirm officially?

Rick O.
Rick Orthen

Looks like we have a quorum to start a similar club in the SEATAC area. Now what to call it....
Rick Crawford

Is that one of those words that I need to learn along with boot, bonnet, tea, etc. [ I had to throw "tea" in since I did not want to appear ignorant for knowing only 2 british english terms. :) ]
Ignatius

homologation- This ia (or was) a term that is used in racing. Manufac. had to build a certain number of cars in order to be legal in certain governing bodies. This kept the manufac. from building just race cars.
Don K. (I just took a stab at it.)
DON KELLY

Did you ever wonder what a GTO was? Gran Turismo Omologato....General Motors 'borrowed' that from Ferrari, (if I remember correctly) and Don K is real close:
Homologation (from the verb homologate, meaning to approve or confirm officially) is the certification of a product or specification to indicate that it meets regulatory standards.

....that from the website:
http://searchcio.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid19_gci809833,00.html

I'm going back to the garage now to finish putting on my oilpan.

Rod
Rod Nichols

Hey Guys

Never heard the word myself and after asking on some of the Rod pages I frequent. One gentleman turns out to be an English Prof. in real life.

He called it a "bastardisation" of an old word rarely used and not found in many dictionaries until misused by many self serving organizations such as ISO standards and other groups. Mostly to allow mediocre products to become the standard set for manufacturing or organization rules.

I take this to mean Junk/sorta works/works. Ok everybody you can make them to sorta works standards and have our seal of aproval. Lovely.

Specific to cars.

This was copied from an internet page.

"Consulting the dictionary, we find that homologation is the noun form of the verb homologate. Let's hear what Webster has to say about the verb. The first definition of homologate is to approve, confirm, or ratify. Whatever. Interestingly, the second definition is to register (a specific make of automobile in general production) so as to make it eligible for international racing competition. Clearly the second definition was added well after the first, which dates to the 17th century."

This is not found in my Canadian version of Websters? 10-20 yrs. old though. Kool isn't there either. Homologous "Alike in proportion" "conforms" is.

Well as an old rodder I don't plan to homologate real soon. Approvals Kool only from known peers or betters. Conform is out of the question. Confirm and ratify is for Suits and Bean counters. Closest I can come to that would be yep I can confirm and ratify the SUM BI**chin rod came right through the block at 7k just like you said it would Charly. Maybe I'll try that 350 damper.:)

I don't like organizations period and especialy hate those that pre-define how well I can make, alter or improve something.

If the General didn't cut it and Mr. Ford made it better in she goes.

I do apreciate true classics and the folks that love them. Just don't cry unfair when my 25 year old Rodded GMC thanks to MR. Crain and Edelbrock etc. and a whole lot of ingenuity of my own drops the header traps and blows your doors off on a 4 lane. Your Super Duper GT whatever just got waxed by a truck???

In this area if someone wants to homologate a TR6 try ChrisT's with a little help from Mr. Ford/Toyoto and others. Constantly being improved on. Someone asked him today about not running a front plate. He commented it ruins aero-dynamics and they only check your back plate anyway. Yah maybe on your car Chris.

I won't be running ahead of him unless something breaks and he needs a tow.:)

Sorry for the long post blame Charly it was a long word.

Bill
Bill Brayford

Homolagation does limit one to leaving a car as delivered. From a competition standpoint it is the process by which a vehicle is certified as meeting a set of production requirements defined by a governing body. They have to make so many of a certain model, certain peices of equipment must be used or made available for it to be used on a production car based racer, etc. This was the shell game and incrediblly large loop hole that Ferrari and Porsche played in 69 and the early 70's with the 512 and the 917 variants. The FIA had set the required numbers so low that they made enough so the cars were not considered to be prototypes, but instead were considered production models. This meant they could run some rather large motors compared to what they would have been allowed to otherwise as prototypes. Hence, the so called road going versions and all the customer cars in those models that were raced. The end result was that the 917 was the dominant car of its time, with the occasional bone tossed to a 512 driver.

From an SCCA standpoint, the TR6 is and has been homolagated otherwise it would not have been classified in the General Competition Rules (GCR). The GCR provides running class and preparation allowances for a car within a given classification. Since you are looking to go vintage as opposed to SCCA Club Racing, then the rules are all over the map depending upon which organization you will be running with. You may need to go back to an old GCR if you must run the car under say 1974 rules as opposed to current ones, other organizations just want to make sure that you don't show up with some Batmobile, modern era prototype looking thing and call it a TR6. As an example of the why would be that the current GCR allows rear disc brakes and a 5 speed transmission to be fitted to a TR6 in E Prod, a GCR from the 70's when the car ran in either C or D Prod (depending upon equipment) would not. So check with the governing organization you will be running with on what is and isn't allowed. As far as street TR6s out there, I am sure that there are several that would be prepared in a way that they are outside the rules of SCCA Club Racing, Solo or Rally plus the various vintage organizations.

Some interesting cars have have come out of the homolagtion process. Some of them cars that you might not realize that was the rationale for the cars origin. A couple of American examples from the late 60's are the Z/28 and the Boss 302. They played mix and match with new parts and parts bin items to come up with cars that could be used as a base for a competitive car in SCCA's Trans Am series. Why do you think they offered twin four barrel carbs and rear disc brakes on the Z/28 in the late 60's? It wasn't because GM was going to make any money off of them, it was to produce the number required so SCCA and NHRA would consider these as regular production items and let them be used on the racers. And trust me, those cars were not left as they rolled away from the dealer before they were turned loose on the track. Check out Unfair Advantage for more detail on the Z/28.

From a European standpoint, there were the various road offering/race car bases from Ferrari and Porsche that we know about, but even folks like Renault got in the act with things like the R1134/35 R8 Gordini's. Take your basic 1100cc or 1300cc R8, throw away the head and replace it with a cross flow hemi head, install a hot cam, a couple of sidedraft twin throat Solex cars and some headers, then beef up the suspension. You build enough to satisfy the FIA and the SCCA and suddenly you have a terror of a car to place in GT4/GT5. When I was a kid a friend had an R10 that had all the R1135 stuff from a dead race car under it (the donor car was pictured a couple of years ago in Vintage Motorsports article on Delmo Johnson, he was running it in GT4 in the mid 60's). It was lots of fun showing taillights to 914s, MGBs and yes, even TR6s with that lime green R10.

Some later homolagation specials for the USA were R-model Miatas and the ACR Neons. Build a certain number of specially equiped street cars for sale in the USA, make them legal for Showroom Stock classes in SCCA and take them racing. For all intents and purposes, SSB and SSC became spec classes for a while because if you did not run the Miata or the Neon, you were not going to be competitive on a National level, much less win.

Another was the Cosworth Vega from 75 and 76. GM was going to build 5000, the magic number for FIA rally production homolagation at the time. Problem was that it was priced rather high (~$5500 if I am remembering correctly) you could not get air conditioning and no mattter what you did, it was still a Vega.
SteveP

Steve, thanks for all the great information. What I'm doing is racing in Sovren. Their rules state the car must be built prior to 1-1-70 or built to specs for the 69 model year. What I'm looking for is the specifacations for that year if they were changed from the standard spec. I have the SCCA specifacations, which allow SU or SZ carburation as well as PI. I interested in as you state, if there was ever any kind of homolgation ouside of the SCCA specs. Such as the use of Webers or similar carburation, or spoilers or different brake systems. If I can find any papers such as this, used for the 69 model year, then I could also use these modifacations. Thanks for all the help.
Charly Mitchel

Charly,

Did you get the e-mail and did it help any? Shoot back a response if you have questions.
SteveP

This thread was discussed between 13/03/2003 and 21/03/2003

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