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Triumph TR6 - windscreen alignment
|I have an alignment problem with the wind-up door windows and the windscreen frame. The right-hand window seems to exit the door interior under the wrong angle. When itís wound-up at 80% it will jam on the windscreen frame. I can guide the window past the frame but, in my view, there remains to much pressure on the screen. I guess it is nearly Ĺ inch I need to compensate at the top to get things right.|
The door fits nicely in the bodyworks and I consider the car to be straight.
On the opposite (left-hand) site the wind up window is just touching the rubber seal, I could allow some additional pressure here.
I cannot find any adjustment within the windup mechanism inside the door. Is it perhaps possible to adjust the windscreen frame position on the top panel?
All tips are welcome to make one of my winter projects succeed
The side glass is a glue and glazing strip fit in the channel. May not be centered right? You will need to soak the channel with WD40 for awhile to remove the glass. One of the few things the stuffs good for? Clean up the channel old glue and rust. Then get new glazing V strip and the proper glazing glue sealer. Auto window shops will sell it by the foot much cheaper than ordering. May just give you a couple of feet if you buy the sealer? Take glass and channel with you there are different glazing thicknesses.
I always do a dry fit and mark both window and channel centers. Check the glass is bottomed in the channel front and back. Then take out and glaze.
Check the guides for unusual wear and the scissor lift for worn out rivets oblong holes.
Since the problems at the top of the lift its almost always the glass fit to the channel.
what have you not done to a TR6? MAN!!!
|Thanks Bill, I will give it a try|
|Double check all the points Eric before you rip apart. Mine are only suggestions from past experience. The windshield and frame are a very stiff unit and wont bend easy. So its not likely the problem.|
I had a Vandalism problem way back. Genius slashed a year old roof and when he still couldn't get at 10 bucks worth of tapes sitting on the seat he reefed the drivers door window till it broke. Worst of it was the door handle was just a bit sticky. Car wasn't locked. Replaced many side glasses on Rods. Due to top chopping original glass never fits. Thats the only TR one though but its pretty easy on any.
|I have a 76 that the door glass does not align with the windshield. I could use 1/4 inch clearance on both sides at the top. I would love to tilt the windshield forward slightly but the only way I see of doing that is to remove the guides behind the dash and reweld them in at the proper spot for door glass alignment. OR, does anyone know if the door glasses themselves could be reground to allow for this. What do the Rod Shops do when they chop tops? Repositioning the A-post seals is not the problem.|
|I was some what puzzled about WD40. It is not a product known on the Dutch market. |
As usual I relied on Google to get a clue.
Guess what Bill, check this link http://www.twbc.org/wd40.htm. WD-40 must contain a magic formula and perform miracles; it will list over 2000 different usages. Your glazing seal dissolver purpose is not there yet, you might want to ask them to add it to the list.
Are you out side to side? After re-reading with Gene's post I think that's what your saying? Hows the entry fit when you start winding up?
I am WD40's worst nightmare I don't think the stuff is good for anything much like 3in1 oil. Rots rubber and silicone worse than useless as a penetraing oil and dries and gums way to fast as a lubricant? Glad to hear its not there. Don't think you need it.
The screen can be adjusted a bit. If it was off at anytime and the windows were not up during refit. The corner to corner may be off. Watch if paint work was done with windscreen on! The hole in the body panel is oversize. If the screen was not aligned squared up. Or maybe pulled down too tight one side first? That may be your problem. Whole works could be cocked slightly.
Be carefull of your paint!
The glass can be ground or cut to whatever. Its tempered not much different from your screen door safety glass. Different thickness.
Glass does not change shape! Metal does due to rusting forming etc. You did not chop the top? From what you describe take a square and measure? You know the glass angles. Rear should come up vertical aproximately the same on both sides? Mask body paint your level and square so you don't scratch then play with the angles till you find whats out? My bet is the A-post seams are too perfect. Normal was in the range of 3/8ths factory..:)
|This car is very rust free and accident free. It appears to have never been apart as it has only 60k documented miles. I think it was misaligned at the factory. Having owned 13 other TR6s, and done 2 ground ups, this is the first one I've had that is this bad. The left top corner of the glass actually touches the frame of the windshield slightly so the A-post seal is destroyed(and appears to have been that way for quite a while.|
The line about tempered glass should read it can't be ground or cut! Stuff shatters to pebbles.
Older side glass was not tempered pre 60s? Not sure of the exact time frame. Laminated glass like the windshield can be trimmed. Some new cars are going to the laminated for side windows now.
Anyway I've found the glass is always identical. Never checked on a TR6 but on American you can line up ten right hand door windows from a 70s GM truck and there all the same.
So I would have to go back to metal fitment or the glass is too far forward in the glazing? That may be a possible? The windshield frame has to be consistently pretty close for the windshields to fit don't you think?
|Ah yes, tempered glass, a favorite everywhere. Have you ever passed a car while wearing your polarized "Joe Cool Shades" and noticed that the side and rear glass looked like it had spots? It looked like it had spots because it did. Rather than anneal the glass, tempered glass is essentially air quenched. Thos spots you see are where there was direct impingment of the air jet on the glass. The reason you see it with the polarized lens is that those lenses will only let light pass in one plane, making the areas of differential residual stress in the glass surface show up.|
The reason that you can't cut or grind on tempered glass is that it is held within balanced stresses. The inner core is in tension, while the rapidly cooled outer layers are in compression. Being a ceramic, it is rather strong in compression, but extremely weak in tension. Break through that compressive layer and it suddenly goes into tesile overload. The end result is pile of small broken bits. Corning's Correlle Ware used a similar principle except that is a inner core with an overlay in compression. As a kid, I remember a friend wanted to prove that he could break one of the plates despite claims to the contrary. He dropped it, threw it, hit it, nothing worked for him until he went into his parents closet and brought a gun. One shot from a .38 later and there was a broken plate. He just barely lived to tell about that one.
Windscreens are not tempered. There was a design class from long ago and not so far away where we discussed the more difficult considerations related to producing windshields. We are all coming up things like optical distortion due to curvature or variations in thickness, differing indices of refraction as a result of batch differences in the melts, and so on. It was finally pointed out to us that, no, the toughest consideration was making a windscreen that would break at a lower stress than your head. This is why windscreens are laminated annealed glass. I do think that Bill has the time frame about right on when you started seeing tempered glass in cars.
The alignment problem is side to side. The front-rear alignment is quit ok. I will make a foto and post the link.
|My alignment problem is top to bottom. The glass is perfect at the bottom or where the door/fender/windshield frame meet. However, as you follow up the glass (on both sides) the door glass becomes increasingly close to the windshield frame until it actually touches on the driver's side and is VERY close on the passengers. I hope you guys can give me an easier out, but it still appears to me that my windshield frame was misaligned from the begining. Comments?|
You first since you started this window problem:)
I hope you have the TRF 2 books. PLATE FE55 is a washer/spacer used, or not used, for window allignment. The window has to follow the 2 channels (PLATE FE50 and FE56) up and down. The spacers are used at the top or bottom of the channels to "pull in"..."push out" the channels at the top or bottom. Obviously adding spacers at the top 2 mounting points (the channel) will kick the top edge of the window out ...or removing a spacer at the bottom will kick the top edge of the window out....and visa-versa. The glass channels have plastic incerts in them for ware purposes and are also lined in a felt material for no scratch purposes. This stuff has to be in good shape also...maybe this is your problem and is what has caused the windows to be "out".
2 possible cures for you.
1: The wind up/down mechanism, PLATE FE61 is mounted in 2 locations (I do not consider the window handle as a mounting point). If the rear mounting screws ,PLATE FE 65,66,and 67 are ,shall I say, "high" then this will tip the top leading edge of the glass forward and contact the wind screen frame sooner. I do not think this mounting screw is in a "slotted" hole in the door. Maybe it needs to be slotted down to drop the back edge of the wind up mechanism. You can not move it to much or you put the handle out of position. Have note done this but maybe only a little bit of drop will solve your problem.
2: This is the harder of the 2 and is probably the correct way to do it. The wind screen frame is adjustable. PLATE FG 10 is the bracket that holds the long " rods" of the glass frame. You will notice that there are 3 bolts holding this bracket to the body. One hole is non-adjustable...the top front one. The other 2 are adjustable...so the bracket swivels around the fixed screw. Simply the 2 adjustable screws will tilt the top edge of the windshield frame forwards and backwards. This one obvioulsy involves a lot more work.
Good luck to you both.
|Rick, yes I have the books and I took a look at that. Would you believe that I have done 2 ground up restos on TR6s and did not realize that the bracket was adjustable? Thank you very much as I will do more work sometimes in spite of myself.|
|Thank you Rick.|
Gene I have taken that thing apart a couple of times myself and never realy thought of it as an adjustable.
Richard you have out done yourself. Probably the best researched nailed down post I've ever seen. Bravo!
SEEEEE!!! even a young wippper-snapper can come up with a good one once in a while:)
Gene and Bill, you are welcome.
Humble, Rick C
Thanks a lot, I have found your references. I did not note the spacers before. From the looks of it, this must be the way to adjust the side-side alignment.
My only concern now is, where to find a little japanese guy to get his hands within the door interior. Better get the emergency kit ready to plaster my hands afterwards.
|Here is the link http://TR6.Creyghton.net/Photo/overview-photo.asp?ID=19&varPAGE=4 with some pictures I took from the alignment issue of the wind-up window.|
I guess the spacers sugested by Rick will solve the issue.
First off thats one nice car! Great pics.
Tricky part is teaching your wife how to adjust a door as per Rick while you hold the first aid kit..:)
Man that dash turned out nice...:)
Very beautiful dash! Burlwood?
Shows off the chrome bezeled instruments nicely. Looks like you have a heft wind blocker also.
You are also welcome
The dash is finished with Madrone veneer. I received some help from a ships carpenter. It was a left over from a custom build 10 B$ yacht for an Arabic oil sheik.
This thread was discussed between 21/10/2004 and 01/11/2004
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